All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (3 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[MT15]

Well, he did get a vax that does nothing and got several boosters, so you say free, I say tomato.
Besides, he probably has a lot stock in those big pharma overlords.

More lies about vaccines. And exaggerating the number of boosters. You either know better and are being intentionally provoking about vaccines or you have bought into all the lies you are being told about the Covid vaccines by people who are basically unhinged.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

.........................Remind me what Trump does again today....................

Sure. This may interest you:

"Melania Trump is selling fashion cheap
Robin Givhan
The hat — and American history — were up for sale to the highest crypto bidder. (Jacquelyn Martin/AP)
Trump always played to the cameras. Hers was a glib, fashion shoot interpretation of style, one that often led to beautiful photographs but a questionable grasp of history and politics. This was evidenced by her choice of a Colonial-era pith helmet while touring Nairobi National Park in Kenya in 2018. And she wore a sand-colored ensemble with a coordinating fedora while posing by the Giza pyramids in Egypt — a look that called to mind the colonizers of “Out of Africa” and various villains in “Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.”

Although Trump’s clothing choices might have been symbolically sketchy, they almost always had luxury bona fides. Trump had no qualms about dressing almost exclusively from the upper floors of department stores. She wasn’t using fashion to be accessible or relatable, but to be photogenic. The narrative of her time in the East Wing is most vividly communicated in pictures rather than words."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/25/melania-trump-is-selling-fashion-cheap/

Not much of a first lady was she.

 

[Farb]

More lies about vaccines. And exaggerating the number of boosters. You either know better and are being intentionally provoking about vaccines or you have bought into all the lies you are being told about the Covid vaccines by people who are basically unhinged.

Lies? Are the vaccines and all the boosters stopping the spread of Omni among the vaxed? I just got a notice from my local covid hospital- 47% of all covid patients are unvaxed/ 53% fully vaxed.

You really are passionate about the vaccines, almost as if you believe everything you have been told but not everything you are being told now.

 

[Farb]

Sure. This may interest you:

"Melania Trump is selling fashion cheap
Robin Givhan
The hat — and American history — were up for sale to the highest crypto bidder. (Jacquelyn Martin/AP)
Trump always played to the cameras. Hers was a glib, fashion shoot interpretation of style, one that often led to beautiful photographs but a questionable grasp of history and politics. This was evidenced by her choice of a Colonial-era pith helmet while touring Nairobi National Park in Kenya in 2018. And she wore a sand-colored ensemble with a coordinating fedora while posing by the Giza pyramids in Egypt — a look that called to mind the colonizers of “Out of Africa” and various villains in “Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.”

Although Trump’s clothing choices might have been symbolically sketchy, they almost always had luxury bona fides. Trump had no qualms about dressing almost exclusively from the upper floors of department stores. She wasn’t using fashion to be accessible or relatable, but to be photogenic. The narrative of her time in the East Wing is most vividly communicated in pictures rather than words."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/25/melania-trump-is-selling-fashion-cheap/

Not much of a first lady was she.

She certainly is no Dr. of community college education, that is for sure.

Remind me what office Mrs. Trump holds again and why I should care about her fashion line?

 

[MT15]

Lies? Are the vaccines and all the boosters stopping the spread of Omni among the vaxed? I just got a notice from my local covid hospital- 47% of all covid patients are unvaxed/ 53% fully vaxed.

You really are passionate about the vaccines, almost as if you believe everything you have been told but not everything you are being told now.

Your local Covid hospital? Please share that data. I have never seen numbers like that. It’s not just what I’ve been told, it’s what I have seen with my own eyes. And without seeing those numbers myself from an actual hospital I don’t believe them one bit.

Meanwhile here is DeSantis getting caught in yet another lie.

 

[coldseat]

Is this you @Farb? Did you go out to LA to harass those kids? Man, leave those kids alone.

Man caught on camera berating kids over wearing masks | CNN

Police have opened an investigation after a concerned parent captured a man wearing a “your mask makes you look stupid,” shirt yelling children who were wearing masks. Affiliate KCAL/KBCS reports

www.cnn.com

 

[MT15]

Oh, and DeSantis has pushed monoclonal ab treatments because one of his biggest donors makes them. They are about 50 times more expensive than a vaccine with the same result, but he doesn’t care because he’s taking their money.

 

[MT15]

Lies? Are the vaccines and all the boosters stopping the spread of Omni among the vaxed? I just got a notice from my local covid hospital- 47% of all covid patients are unvaxed/ 53% fully vaxed.

You really are passionate about the vaccines, almost as if you believe everything you have been told but not everything you are being told now.

I’m waiting for the proof of this statement. Here’s the CDC data, and in my own hospital it has consistently been true that 80-90% of Covid admissions were unvaccinated.

 

[Farb]

Is this you @Farb? Did you go out to LA to harass those kids? Man, leave those kids alone.

Man caught on camera berating kids over wearing masks | CNN

Police have opened an investigation after a concerned parent captured a man wearing a “your mask makes you look stupid,” shirt yelling children who were wearing masks. Affiliate KCAL/KBCS reports

www.cnn.com

I would have gotten away with too if not for those pesky kids!

 

[Farb]

Your local Covid hospital? Please share that data. I have never seen numbers like that. It’s not just what I’ve been told, it’s what I have seen with my own eyes. And without seeing those numbers myself from an actual hospital I don’t believe them one bit.

Meanwhile here is DeSantis getting caught in yet another lie.

If they are admitting the antibody treatment doesn't work, then is it safe to say the vaccine doesn't work against Omni as well?

I can't find the article I read the other day, kind of strange. I also talked with a doctor (private practice) yesterday afternoon at his home while doing a few things and he stated that he has 20 or so patients in the hospital right now for covid and (his words, and he was drinking so probably a bit stretched) 90% are fully vaxed.

You seem to be much better at looking up covid data than I am, can you show me hospitalization between vaxed and unvaxed with Omni? I can't find actual data that shows this.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

For example:

"COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Deaths by Vaccination Status January 26, 2022
Summary
Unvaccinated 12-34 year-olds in Washington are

2 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-olds.
5 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year- olds.

Unvaccinated 35-64 year-olds are

• 3 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-olds.
• 7 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year- olds.
• 
  
• Unvaccinated 65+ year-olds are
• 
  
• 4 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 7 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 11 times more likely to die of COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 
  
• Background
  Vaccination is a critical tool for containing the COVID-19 pandemic. COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective and greatly reduce the risk of severe illness, hospitalization, and death from COVID-19. Approximately two-thirds of the eligible Washington population is fully vaccinated and protected from experiencing these serious outcomes. However, many remain unvaccinated and case rates are currently very high. Vaccination rates also vary across the state and between age and demographic groups, leaving some populations particularly vulnerable.
• 
  
• Although COVID-19 vaccines work well to prevent severe illness and death among those exposed to the virus, a small percentage of fully vaccinated people will still get COVID-19. Even highly effective vaccines cannot prevent all infections. However, because the vaccine offers strong protection against the most serious outcomes of COVID-19, increasing vaccination rates is key to limiting severe COVID-19 cases and saving lives."

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Do...-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf

 

[RobF]

If they are admitting the antibody treatment doesn't work, then is it safe to say the vaccine doesn't work against Omni as well?

No, they're different treatments that work in different ways. Vaccination does work against Omicron. It does show reduced efficiency relative to Delta, and over time, but even with that it still has significant efficiency against hospitalisation and mortality, and its efficiency generally is greatly increased with a booster.

The UK has quite a lot of data on this now. E.g. from the most recent COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report (published today):

Two doses of either AstraZeneca (ChAdOx1-S) or Pfizer (BNT162b2) vaccines was associated with a vaccine effectiveness of approximately 25 to 35% against hospitalisation following infection with the Omicron variant, after 25+ weeks. After a Pfizer booster (after either primary vaccination course), vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation started at around 90% dropping to around 75% after 10 to 14 weeks. After a Moderna booster (mRNA-1273) (after either primary vaccination course), vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation was 90 to 95% up to 9 weeks after vaccination.​

​

Vaccine effectiveness against mortality with the Omicron variant has been estimated for those aged 50 years and older by combining the risk of becoming a symptomatic case with the risk of death among symptomatic cases in vaccinated (all vaccines combined) compared to unvaccinated individuals (Table 1). At 25+ weeks following the second dose, vaccine effectiveness was around 60% while at 2 or more weeks following a booster vaccine effectiveness was 95% against mortality.​

​

Bear in mind that the overall risk to an individual is a combination of their base risk and the efficiency of any vaccinations they may have had, and that Omicron, while more transmissible and facing reduced vaccine efficiency relative to Delta, also appears to have a lower base risk of hospitalisation and mortality in the first place, so the reduced efficiency of the vaccine relative to Delta isn't as significant as it would be if Omicron had the same base risk as Delta. Thankfully it doesn't, so the overall level of protection for fully vaccinated and boosted individuals is still good in that regard, in terms of what we expect from vaccinations.

Could be better though, and we're seeing trials of Omicron-specific vaccines starting now.

Pfizer and BioNTech start trials of new Omicron-specific jab

The companies have adapted their original vaccine to target the fast-spreading variant.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Farb]

 

[The moose]

https://www.pressherald.com/2022/01/20/europe-considers-new-covid-19-strategy-accepting-the-virus/

MADRID — When the coronavirus pandemic was first declared, Spaniards were ordered to stay home for more than three months. For weeks, they were not allowed outside even for exercise. Children were banned from playgrounds, and the economy virtually stopped.

People attend a music concert in Barcelona in March 2021. Associated Press/Emilio Morenatti

But officials credited the draconian measures with preventing a full collapse of the health system. Lives were saved, they argued.

Now, almost two years later, Spain is preparing to adopt a different COVID-19 playbook. With one of Europe’s highest vaccination rates and its most pandemic-battered economies, the government is laying the groundwork to treat the next infection surge not as an emergency but an illness that is here to stay. Similar steps are under consideration in neighboring Portugal and in Britain.

The idea is to move from crisis mode to control mode, approaching the virus in much the same way countries deal with flu or measles. That means accepting that infections will occur and providing extra care for at-risk people and patients with complications.

Did we glance over the vaccination rate? Do we ignore the fact that they have government supplied healthcare.

Those are huge factors that we lack.

Not to mention that this last round is less deadly to the people that got the vaccine already

 

[Farb]

Did we glance over the vaccination rate? Do we ignore the fact that they have government supplied healthcare.

Those are huge factors that we lack.

Not to mention that this last round is less deadly to the people that got the vaccine already

or those that already had the virus and recovered.

 

[MT15]

So your tweet doesn’t have a link, or really even any context at all as to the number of people that were tested to yield that level of cases.

Also, since testing is my thing, I’m going to get into the weeds a bit. If they are using PCR testing, and testing asymptomatic people, there’s a chance they are catching vaccinated people who have been exposed, thus having the virus in their nose, but are not strictly infected. The virus isn’t replicating in them and they will not actually come down with the disease.

PCR testing is very sensitive - the incubation period is designed to let any viral particles replicate in the test media. So almost any viral particles at all will be detected by the test. The pathologists and infectious disease docs have had conversations about this effect.

I heard one doc say he thought we needed new terminology because people are showing up with detectable viral particles without truly being infected. Most labs haven’t done thus type of PCR testing which is capable of detecting such small amounts of virus for other viral illnesses. So we don’t normally see these types of positive results.

 

[MT15]

or those that already had the virus and recovered.

There is starting to be data about this, Farb. Natural immunity to Delta offers very little protection against Omicron. Sorry, I know that isn’t what you want to hear.

 

[MT15]

Okay, found this which might explain the article Farb saw. I think it’s fairly self-explanatory but if not there’s more posts about this subject.