All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (4 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[Farb]

I thought it was the narrative that he said the entire thing is a hoax as if the virus didn't exist. Is that wrong?

 

[TraumaRN]

Germany? I'm not sure I follow. Germany is the fifth largest contributor to the WHO (https://open.who.int/2018-19/contributors/contributor), providing 5.33% of its funding through to Q4 2019. The USA is the largest contributor, providing 15.18% of the WHO's funding, but the USA has a GDP roughly five times that of Germany. That is, Germany has been contributing a higher proportion of its GDP to the WHO than the USA has, before the recent USA cuts.

Are you maybe thinking of defense spending within NATO countries, rather than WHO contributions?


I think that's overstating it. The WHO is pretty transparent, they publish a lot of data and information. I wouldn't argue that the WHO isn't overly, let's say, diplomatic, frequently refraining from direct criticism even where warranted, but I'd say they have to be. They don't have power to force compliance, and I can see why they'd take the approach of praising China for providing the information they did, with the aim of encouraging further compliance, rather than take a more aggressive stance with the risk of China reducing cooperation as a result.

On the payment front it is not just WHO but Nato as well. Germany pays for what interest them, and not what does not. In terms of Nato, all developed countries should pay a fixed percent of GDP. We are all protecting each other. That is also, clearly a distraction for Trump Nationalism, but we are back to square one. Same with Brexit which has nothing to do with WHO. Americans and Brits, clearly based on voting, feel they are carrying the weight of others who don't cough up their fair share. .

 

[efil4]

I thought it was the narrative that he said the entire thing is a hoax as if the virus didn't exist. Is that wrong?

Not entirely.

The HOAX was his double speak. Since he RARELY commits to define ( and when he does, his press secretaries usually find themselves under a bus ) Allows anyone to interpret how they see fit. So to his supporters, the entire COVID was a hoax.

To those more inclined to follow science, like myself, interpreted that the severity was the HOAX.

Which again, over 147,000 and counting think otherwise.

 

[TraumaRN]

WHO Has Admitted an Error in Its Assessment of Wuhan Coronavirus Risk

The World Health Organization, which has sometimes been criticised for its handling of past disease outbreaks, admitted an error on Monday in its risk assessment of China's deadly virus.

www.sciencealert.com

Would it have made a difference, yes it would have. No one else was allowed in, they were the one's responsible to sound the alarm bells. They did not. We KNEW China was lying specifically b/c they would not let us in. The bigger issue, why? Is it incompetence, or something else? Has to be fixed, this is unlikely to be our last we have had Sars, Mers, H1N1... The system is broken and we can't afford another mistake. Am I for taking their funding in the middle of a pandemic? Hella no! But do we need to figure it out, and sooner rather than later.

 

[TraumaRN]

Not entirely.

The HOAX was his double speak. Since he RARELY commits to define ( and when he does, his press secretaries usually find themselves under a bus ) Allows anyone to interpret how they see fit. So to his supporters, the entire COVID was a hoax.

To those more inclined to follow science, like myself, interpreted that the severity was the HOAX.

Which again, over 147,000 and counting think otherwise.

The question at this point is more serious though, it is intent. He and Don Jr. posted on Monday and Tuesday more stuff like this, Hydroxychloroquine long debunked, masks and shutdowns not needed. They pulled it but 14 million people saw and were potentially conned by it. Clearly at this point he knows and that makes Boltons claim that his singular focus is re-election, and well as Mary Trump's assertion that he has no concern for the American People, seem quite valid.

 

[efil4]

The question at this point is more serious though, it is intent. He and Don Jr. posted on Monday and Tuesday more stuff like this, Hydroxychloroquine long debunked, masks and shutdowns not needed. They pulled it but 14 million people saw and were potentially conned by it. Clearly at this point he knows and that makes Boltons claim that his singular focus is re-election, and well as Mary Trump's assertion that he has no concern for the American People, seem quite valid.

for those paying attention, yes that is all this is about at this point.

He still has his base that will lap up just about any inane rambling he posits, because they have been conned long before this. And the beauty of the con artist, is that the subject rarely wants to admit to being conned, so they continue to fall victim versus cutting their losses and admitting they were duped. ( See 3 Card Monte )

So he continues this faux narrative yet never clearly defining the narrative as to leave it to his followers to decide for themselves. Deniability ( I never said exactly "that" ). He is doing the same with his leadership on COVID. Leaving it up to the States to decide what to do....why? so he can claim no "responsibility".

He has been doing this since the 90s in his business pursuits as well.

 

[TraumaRN]

for those paying attention, yes that is all this is about at this point.

He still has his base that will lap up just about any inane rambling he posits, because they have been conned long before this. And the beauty of the con artist, is that the subject rarely wants to admit to being conned, so they continue to fall victim versus cutting their losses and admitting they were duped. ( See 3 Card Monte )

So he continues this faux narrative yet never clearly defining the narrative as to leave it to his followers to decide for themselves. Deniability ( I never said exactly "that" ). He is doing the same with his leadership on COVID. Leaving it up to the States to decide what to do....why? so he can claim no "responsibility".

He has been doing this since the 90s in his business pursuits as well.

Agree. But he doubles down on no maks, even last night, and how is he gonna duck responsibility for that? He can't make his mind up which way the wind is blowing b/c he only takes council from Fox news, and not even someone sensible like Chris Wallace. Nope it is Hannity, or Carlson (what a hateful intentionally and unnecessary cruel rant he goes on in the opening of his show). He does not believe polls he does not trust his advisors...We are in a world of Covid hell until November.

 

[efil4]

Agree. But he doubles down on no maks, even last night, and how is he gonna duck responsibility for that? He can't make his mind up which way the wind is blowing b/c he only takes council from Fox news, and not even someone sensible like Chris Wallace. Nope it is Hannity, or Carlson (what a hateful intentionally and unnecessary cruel rant he goes on in the opening of his show). He does not believe polls he does not trust his advisors...We are in a world of Covid hell until November.

Correct. I stopped worrying about the govt response in Feb 2020 when he stood in front of the nation to announce we have 15, then 7 then zero.

At that very moment i knew it was now down to the individual to decide what to do. Same reason i have boxes of N95 masks that i accumulated in early Feb and was able to donate many to my friends in hospital settings that didnt even have the stock to dole out at the height of our pandemic.

I stopped paying mind to those who flatly refuse to wear a mask in stores etc. They arent worth my time any longer as they have allowed misinformation to dominate their way of thinking and fallen so deep into the con, they cant find a way out AND save face. I do have some friends that have admitted their mistake, but i have others that double-down daily on FB posts.

Those folks are the ones routinely referred to as "marks" by the conman. Then toss in the tribalism of politics, and you have the perfect reciepe for a true con.

 

[bdb13]

I thought it was the narrative that he said the entire thing is a hoax as if the virus didn't exist. Is that wrong?

This is what I said at the time:

If I said the NFL was a hoax after the Saints got screwed in that championship game a couple years ago, would you take my words to mean that I'm exclusively/literally saying the NFL does not exist, or maybe something different?

It's not wrong to say that Trump called this coronavirus thing a hoax, because he did. He wasn't saying the virus does not actually exist, but he was saying the coronavirus didn't appear to be that big of a deal when compared with the flu and that the Democrats were simply making it a big issue to go after him. That it was a big hoax.

 

[wardorican]

So, did we definitely prove that Trump said the virus itself was a hoax and didn't exist? He actually said there was not virus or did he say the reaction to the virus was a hoax?

I think more of the second, but as usual, he doesnt speak clearly, so it is up to the listener to derive meaning.

You decide.

Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. You know that, right? Coronavirus. They’re politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs. You say, ‘How’s President Trump doing?’ They go, ‘Oh, not good, not good.’ They have no clue. They don’t have any clue. They can’t even count their votes in Iowa, they can’t even count. No they can’t. They can’t count their votes.

One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia. That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over, they’ve been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning, they lost, it’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax. But you know, we did something that’s been pretty amazing. We’re 15 people [cases of coronavirus infection] in this massive country. And because of the fact that we went early, we went early, we could have had a lot more than that.

........

So a number that nobody heard of that I heard of recently and I was shocked to hear it, 35,000 people on average die each year from the flu. Did anyone know that? 35,000. That’s a lot of people. It could go to 100,000, it could be 27,000, they say usually a minimum of 27, it goes up to 100,000 people a year who die, and so far we have lost nobody to coronavirus in the United States. Nobody. And it doesn’t mean we won’t, and we are totally prepared, it doesn’t mean we won’t. But think of it. You hear 35 and 40,000 people, and we’ve lost nobody, and you wonder, the press is in hysteria mode.

Did President Trump Refer to the Coronavirus as a 'Hoax'?

Trump's commentary on the new coronavirus came before the virus began killing patients in the U.S.

www.snopes.com

Sounds like he is complaining about the dems giving him a hard time for his response to the virus, which he is saying is good enough, all while also downplaying the risk.

History won't look kindly at that.

 

[Farb]

I have learned in the past few years, History will look at history however whoever is paying the bills says to look at history.

Yea, he didn't say the virus was a hoax. I think he did mean the politicization of the virus, which is like nothing I have ever seen. It is an election year for sure.

 

[Farb]

...We are in a world of Covid hell until November.

Truer words have never been spoken. Although I think we take very different meaning from them.

 

[efil4]

I have learned in the past few years, History will look at history however whoever is paying the bills says to look at history.

Yea, he didn't say the virus was a hoax. I think he did mean the politicization of the virus, which is like nothing I have ever seen. It is an election year for sure.

Can you explain how the politicization of the virus is a hoax?

 

[Farb]

Are you saying this virus has not been politicized?
If so, no need for me to explain. Read any article about the *virus.

*Made in China

 

[efil4]

Are you saying this virus has not been politicized?
If so, no need for me to explain. Read any article about the *virus.

*Made in China

You said it was a hoax. I asked you to explain.

So.... Explain. Where is the hoax?

Are you sayu

 

[CoolBrees]

Well he did say

it would disappear like magic.

and

Person. Man. Woman. Camera. TV

 

[wardorican]

I have learned in the past few years, History will look at history however whoever is paying the bills says to look at history.

Yea, he didn't say the virus was a hoax. I think he did mean the politicization of the virus, which is like nothing I have ever seen. It is an election year for sure.

It's a dangerous virus. Maybe it was inevitable, but poor leadership has made this virus out of control in this country.

People are scared. It wasn't political at first, at least not much. People just wanted to hear some truth and see some action. Once he said it wasn't a big deal and people were being too concerned, a quarter to half of the country tuned him out, because they knew better.

I actually think even a lot of GOP voters have tuned him out in regards to the virus. They probably just think government is so inept that it wouldn't matter who's in charge.. which is part of our problem. Then, the inept end up in charge.

I agree, that he isn't calling the virus a hoax, but he did flat out imply that folks were making another 'big deal out of nothing' to paraphrase... so, he was dead wrong there. He clearly underestimated this. He clearly thought he knew better than everyone else in the room. His ego has hurt us. His ego is going to cause massive foreclosures on commercial property in the coming months. He doesn't know how to lead. He knows how to brag, to take credit, and to whine. Whining is actually what he was doing in that speech.

 

[wardorican]

speaking of him whining..

Trump questions how Fauci has a high approval rating ‘but nobody likes me’

President Trump on Tuesday questioned why Anthony Fauci, the government’s top infectious diseases expert, has a higher approval rating with the public than he does on his handling of the coro…

thehill.com

It is funny, he answered his own question, and is likely correct. Why is Fauci so highly rated, but Trump isn't? "it must be my personality". Yup. It's because you're a serial liar who's also a consistent jackass. I mean, he doesn't miss an opportunity to prove it, every press briefing, every speech...

He even told a few lies in that 2 minute clip. Or, at a minimum, gross exaggerations.