A split Senate (1 Viewer)

[wardorican]

They still haven't worked out their rules. This is just grinding the Senate to a halt.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...19e512-5cf3-11eb-b8bd-ee36b1cd18bf_story.html

When President Biden took office last week, he promised sweeping, bipartisan legislation to solve the coronavirus pandemic, fix the economy and overhaul immigration.
Just days later, the Senate ground to a halt, with Democrats and Republicans unable to agree on even basic rules for how the evenly divided body should operate.

Meanwhile, key Republicans have quickly signaled discomfort with — or outright dismissal of — the cornerstone of Biden’s early legislative agenda, a $1.9 trillion pandemic relief plan that includes measures such as $1,400 stimulus checks, vaccine distribution funding and a $15 minimum wage.
On top of that, senators are preparing for a wrenching second impeachment trial for former president Donald Trump, set to begin Feb. 9, which could mire all other Senate business and further obliterate any hopes of cross-party cooperation.


....

But most of those Democrats — who watched McConnell exempt Republican nominees from filibuster rules where he saw fit under Trump, after using them to the GOP’s advantage for six years before that to block Obama’s legislation and nominees — now find his early power move to be infuriating.

 

[Lapaz]

A large portion of people designated as essential workers make less than $15/hr. It's not politics, it's not "smuggling," it's trying to do the bare minimum to help people who have no choice but to expose themselves to the virus. And even if it was, I fail to see how that's a bad thing unless you're just heartless and think grocery store workers shouldn't be allowed to make a semi-living wage without working multiple jobs.

The minimum wage has nothing to do with Covid relief. It is wrong to stick it in the plan. Yes it is politics, and that certainly doesn’t excuse it. It doesn’t matter whether it is a good or bad idea to increase the minimum wage. Covid could end today, and that won’t change the minimum wage debate. There are people that are making minimum wage whose jobs haven’t been affected by Covid, so why link it to Covid. Covid relief should be directed to people whose income has been impacted by Covid. Minimum wage changes may be needed, but how and when it is implemented should be disassociated from Covid relief.

Minimum wage is used as a disgusting tool. It should be increased and tagged to inflation, and then tweaked going forward, rather than being used as a political tool.

 

[porculator]

Well, I'd probably agree with most of that. But my point was that this should be its own bill, not hiding inside a Covid emergency relief bill ?

Perhaps this is common practice in the USA, to smuggle one agenda inside a larger bill, even though they may be relating to different issues ?

We don't do this in the UK. Well, not so overtly, anyway ?

The number of actual bills passed by congress has plummeted over the years, but the amount of "stuff" in said bills has skyrocketed.

I'm sure there's a bunch of factors for it, but insulating the politicians from criticism (warranted or not) seems to be one of them.

One of the reasons Ron Paul was so popular was that he was able to sneak perks for his district into bills, even though he voted no against just about everything (knowing it would pass anyway.)

But if you think these "normal" bills are bad, read up on the omnibus spending bill that happens every year. That's when the real pork happens.

Welcome to America, inventor of the loophole.

 

[Yggdrasill]

UK resident's guide to understanding American politics: The majority of Democrats are basically Tories who don't believe in universal healthcare (excluding a small subset who trend more towards the UK's Labor Party). The Republicans are Nigel Farage on an acid trip. Although even Farage is not as obsessed with guns and religion as the average Republican official in 2021.

Though even Farage doesn't strike me (an inexperienced observer) as someone who would relentlessly put personal power above the national interest.

 

[porculator]

The minimum wage has nothing to do with Covid relief. It is wrong to stick it in the plan. Yes it is politics, and that certainly doesn’t excuse it. It doesn’t matter whether it is a good or bad idea to increase the minimum wage. Covid could end today, and that won’t change the minimum wage debate. There are people that are making minimum wage whose jobs haven’t been affected by Covid, so why link it to Covid. Covid relief should be directed to people whose income has been impacted by Covid. Minimum wage changes may be needed, but how and when it is implemented should be disassociated from Covid relief.

Minimum wage is used as a disgusting tool. It should be increased and tagged to inflation, and then tweaked going forward, rather than being used as a political tool.

The minimum wage push is a great example of what I think is the democrats' biggest flaw, and why they struggle to catch on in half the country. They often have this unbending utilitarian philosophy that justifies throwing some Americans under the bus in exchange for a small standard of living increase for everyone else. And whether intentional or not, their policies always seem to pick on the rural areas.

Yes, $15/hr min wage would be helpful to a lot of people, but it would also force many businesses to close, particularly in rural areas with lower costs of business, and there is no debating that. Increasing the median income level is not helpful to those whose income level goes from something to nothing.

Sometimes you have to screw a few people over for the greater good (sorry coal industry,) but the democrats need to stop making it their MO. Minimum wage should be a state/local issue. There's nothing stopping cities, or states, or even blocs of states that share similar costs of living, to setting their own minimum wages, and letting Oklahoma and Wyoming and Arkansas continue to putter along at their own pace.

 

[wardorican]

The minimum wage push is a great example of what I think is the democrats' biggest flaw, and why they struggle to catch on in half the country. They often have this unbending utilitarian philosophy that justifies throwing some Americans under the bus in exchange for a small standard of living increase for everyone else. And whether intentional or not, their policies always seem to pick on the rural areas.

Yes, $15/hr min wage would be helpful to a lot of people, but it would also force many businesses to close, particularly in rural areas with lower costs of business, and there is no debating that. Increasing the median income level is not helpful to those whose income level goes from something to nothing.

Sometimes you have to screw a few people over for the greater good (sorry coal industry,) but the democrats need to stop making it their MO. Minimum wage should be a state/local issue. There's nothing stopping cities, or states, or even blocs of states that share similar costs of living, to setting their own minimum wages, and letting Oklahoma and Wyoming and Arkansas continue to putter along at their own pace.

I agree with a portion of this. It's why I'd rather the Fed maintain a min wage floor, not put the floor above everyone's ceiling. And I've been a proponent of having min wage tied to area. There should be a rural min wage vs a metro min wage. Some of that happens naturally in metro areas. But not evenly.

However, I do see this as an option to help push a more equitable recovery for those who make less.

The great recession really helped out the rich, the big banks, but people still lost their homes, the housing market crashed, and people with capitol were able to gobble up a bunch of homes. A lot of the current housing crunch is due to that.

 

[The moose]

The minimum wage push is a great example of what I think is the democrats' biggest flaw, and why they struggle to catch on in half the country. They often have this unbending utilitarian philosophy that justifies throwing some Americans under the bus in exchange for a small standard of living increase for everyone else. And whether intentional or not, their policies always seem to pick on the rural areas.

Yes, $15/hr min wage would be helpful to a lot of people, but it would also force many businesses to close, particularly in rural areas with lower costs of business, and there is no debating that. Increasing the median income level is not helpful to those whose income level goes from something to nothing.

Sometimes you have to screw a few people over for the greater good (sorry coal industry,) but the democrats need to stop making it their MO. Minimum wage should be a state/local issue. There's nothing stopping cities, or states, or even blocs of states that share similar costs of living, to setting their own minimum wages, and letting Oklahoma and Wyoming and Arkansas continue to putter along at their own pace.

Not so much. We have vast amounts of extremely poor working people. When poor people have money they invest right back into the community

I think it was great to give cuts to corporations yet the money was used for buying back stock rather than investing in their workforce. see polar opposite. It is not like it is gonna fix it self obviously

If your business is depends on having the working poor to turn profit maybe it should not exist.

 

[DaveXA]

Not so much. We have vast amounts of extremely poor working people. When poor people have money they invest right back into the community

I think it was great to give cuts to corporations yet the money was used for buying back stock rather than investing in their workforce. see polar opposite. It is not like it is gonna fix it self obviously

If your business is depends on having the working poor to turn profit maybe it should not exist.

So where do those working poor work then? They need to start somewhere.

 

[porculator]

Not so much. We have vast amounts of extremely poor working people. When poor people have money they invest right back into the community

I think it was great to give cuts to corporations yet the money was used for buying back stock rather than investing in their workforce. see polar opposite. It is not like it is gonna fix it self obviously

If your business is depends on having the working poor to turn profit maybe it should not exist.

That's a great theory but you're kind of proving my point here. People don't like it when the government picks winners and losers. Theres thousands of restuarants, farms, and other small businesses that can't operate if they have to pay $15/hr to everyone, and you're basically saying we should force them out of business by pushing the issue.

We all know Walmart can afford it but there's a huge gap between corporations, particularly the publicly traded ones on the bloated stock market, and everyone else.

 

[wardorican]

That's a great theory but you're kind of proving my point here. People don't like it when the government picks winners and losers. Theres thousands of restuarants, farms, and other small businesses that can't operate if they have to pay $15/hr to everyone, and you're basically saying we should force them out of business by pushing the issue.

We all know Walmart can afford it but there's a huge gap between corporations, particularly the publicly traded ones on the bloated stock market, and everyone else.

Keep in mind, it isn't all at once.

This is the step plan they put forth in the similar stand alone bill. It's basically a $1.50/hr raise a year. I do see one potential issue is that they want to pay restaurant workers at this rate, or below min wage + tips.

"

The Raise the Wage Act would increase the pay floor to $9.50 an hour this year, then to $11 next year. The minimum wage would rise to $12.50 per hour in 2023, $14 in 2024 and then $15 in 2025.

The provision to index further increases to median wage growth aims to ensure the country will not go another decade without a higher minimum wage.

"

 

[The moose]

That's a great theory but you're kind of proving my point here. People don't like it when the government picks winners and losers. Theres thousands of restuarants, farms, and other small businesses that can't operate if they have to pay $15/hr to everyone, and you're basically saying we should force them out of business by pushing the issue.

We all know Walmart can afford it but there's a huge gap between corporations, particularly the publicly traded ones on the bloated stock market, and everyone else.

You can cry me a river for the restaurant industry with that two buck an hour crap. Then they tip out everyone else that is also under paid. That is the exact model that needs to be fixed. I as a consumer should not have to pay 20% above a ticket because of a shirtty model. No industry should be allowed to pay a human less than 20 bucks for an eight hour shift.

I know you don't think it but I do tip and tip well when I go get dinner or drinks but it doesn't mean that the model is not broken.

Well I would say if it is imperative in your business model to pay people at or below the poverty level then you should not be in business. 15 an hour is like 30k gross full time. 10 is 20 k full time gross. net close to the poverty level at the poverty level for a single mom with one kid. Full time is a hair above the poverty level gross at the minimum wage and well below it net for a single person. So I guess you think a full time employee should live at the poverty level?

I remember the days when everyone did not have to have two forms of income. I remember when mother's used to be able to raise their children until school age.

This exactly the point the states can't make it happen they are so tilted that by map drawing by the conservatives it would never happen on the state level.