152 Prominent Artists & Scholars Pen Letter Warning of the Dangers of Cancel Culture (1 Viewer)

NoPartyMike

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https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/

But this needed reckoning has also intensified a new set of moral attitudes and political commitments that tend to weaken our norms of open debate and toleration of differences in favor of ideological conformity.

censoriousness is also spreading more widely in our culture: an intolerance of opposing views, a vogue for public shaming and ostracism, and the tendency to dissolve complex policy issues in a blinding moral certainty.

But it is now all too common to hear calls for swift and severe retribution in response to perceived transgressions of speech and thought. More troubling still, institutional leaders, in a spirit of panicked damage control, are delivering hasty and disproportionate punishments instead of considered reforms.

This stifling atmosphere will ultimately harm the most vital causes of our time. The restriction of debate, whether by a repressive government or an intolerant society, invariably hurts those who lack power and makes everyone less capable of democratic participation. The way to defeat bad ideas is by exposure, argument, and persuasion, not by trying to silence or wish them away.

I have to agree with them. Something seems off about the latest heavy handed approach to everything. I kind of liken it to the beating of children to get them to behave or act accordingly. Ultimately, it can have the opposite of the desired effect, and bring forth additional negativities.
 
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Farb

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Feelings and virtue signaling rule everything in this wonderful new world. The 'brave' 152 only care now because they can see the mob coming for them too and probably soon.

I also agree with them but I am an adult and most adults don't care for cancel culture
 

LA - L.A.

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Feelings and virtue signaling rule everything in this wonderful new world. The 'brave' 152 only care now because they can see the mob coming for them too and probably soon.

I also agree with them but I am an adult and most adults don't care for cancel culture
I think that general criticism or accusing others of alleged "virtue signaling" and "feelings signaling" is a form of "virtue signaling" and "feelings signaling" in itself. It's irrational and inconsistent at best to accuse others of what you are doing by the very act of accusing others of doing it.

It'd be like accusing someone of resorting to violence when you are actively engaged in a fist fight with them. News flash, you're both committing violence. You just both feel that your violence is justified and the other person's isn't.

I think it's the same thing with the allegations of "virtue signaling" and "felling signaling." It's not that the accuser isn't engaged in "virtue signaling" or "feelings signaling," it's just that accuser feels that they are justified and correct in their signaling and the other people are not.

The same applies to those making allegations of "cancel culture."
 
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TheRealTruth

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When the far left is now calling for Noam Chomsky to be cancelled, you know something is wrong... Sheesh
 

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Feelings and virtue signaling rule everything in this wonderful new world. The 'brave' 152 only care now because they can see the mob coming for them too and probably soon.

I also agree with them but I am an adult and most adults don't care for cancel culture

I think it's easy to pinpoint anecdotal examples to portray entire swaths of society as a certain way. That being said, it would depend on the situation but I think you'll find most are reasonable about the whole cancel culture ideal if one of those situations did arise.

Would you reference a better world in a different time and place?
 

Heathen

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When the far left is now calling for Noam Chomsky to be cancelled, you know something is wrong... Sheesh

Those aren't actual leftists in any decent sense, they're children IMHO.
 
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NoPartyMike

NoPartyMike

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I think this line is the crux of their message:

tendency to dissolve complex policy issues in a blinding moral certainty

In our 'have it all and now' lives, we're so busy making the world go 'round that we don't feel like we have the time or willpower to hash out any issue. We're a very ADD nation. Maybe because we don't take the time to dive into things, it gives the politicians carte blanche to paint with broad strokes, label and categorize everyone. Things are more easily consumed that way. The downside is that the collective IQ of the nation plummets and problems are solved with a wrecking ball when a hammer may do.
 
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wardorican

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Whatever the arguments around each particular incident, the result has been to steadily narrow the boundaries of what can be said without the threat of reprisal. We are already paying the price in greater risk aversion among writers, artists, and journalists who fear for their livelihoods if they depart from the consensus, or even lack sufficient zeal in agreement.

This is spot on.

Dialogue is a critical piece to meaningful communication and action. When the boundaries are artificially narrowed, it hurts dialogue (outside of basic rules of decent behavior).

I do think, though, that any group thinking they have some sort of moral high ground, is completely misguided. This isn't a left or right only thing. This isn't a young or old only thing. There are some aspects that get a lot of attention from the younger and left leaning. But there are many from the older and the right leaning that get called something else, but are equally 'cancel culture'.

I mean, look at the kneeling during the anthem stuff. If that's not a call to cancel, I don't know what is. Starbuck's christmas cups?

I know a few of you give me crap for posting stuff from the Daily show, but Trevor is a intelligent and thoughtful young man, and he brings on smart guests to talk about issues.

Listen to this bit on 'cancel culture'


This is the full interview, which I have not watched.

 

MT15

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I think it is pretty hypocritical of people who are tolerant of the way Trump wields ”cancel culture” to object to the way others are supposedly promoting it.

Sure, things always get taken too far, that happens in most things, and always has.

But to pretend that this is something that is promoted only by one set of people is just too myopic for words. Look in the mirror and own your own piece of it. We cannot get anywhere until we can talk about it without tribalism. The extremes of both sides engage in this. Repeatedly.
 

MT15

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Here’s a pretty nuanced discussion from someone who leans libertarian (I think) and is a lawyer and a great Twitter follow. It should aid in the discussion. It’s a pretty long thread.

 

Ayo

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That whole thing was a convoluted mess to make sense of. I still have no idea what it was explicitly about vs implicitly about.

And I study this stuff for a living.
 

Farb

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Well, now there are 150 signers. It appears if you sign a letter that stands against 'cancel culture' then you will be threatened to be canceled because cancel culture does not exist. Yeah. Its that kind of logic.

I will reference 2 sources because one is Fox news and we know how hurtful those words can be.

NSFW- https://www.foxnews.com/media/at-least-2-signers-of-liberal-cancel-culture-letter-back-away-from-it

https://www.thewrap.com/some-public...g-harpers-open-letter-against-cancel-culture/
 

RobF

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Will you provide an example of when and where that happened?
I can give a couple, but they don't exactly support the notion of cancel culture being a recent thing.

Chomsky signed a petition supporting the right of a holocaust denier, French historian Robert Faurisson, to academic freedom, and wrote an essay defending his right to promote holocaust denial, on the grounds of freedom of expression, which Chomsky takes a pretty absolutist approach to. The essay was then included as a introduction to the holocaust denier's book (without, apparently, Chomsky's knowledge, although he had given permission for it to be used for any purpose). All of this lead to Chomsky being associated with holocaust denial. As a result, his reputation suffered and in France, translation of his writings were delayed for a couple of decades.

Thing is, this took place in 1979 and 1980. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair

He's also been called anti-semitic on the grounds of his criticism of Israel, which is something else that's been around for a fair few decades.
 

wardorican

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Well, now there are 150 signers. It appears if you sign a letter that stands against 'cancel culture' then you will be threatened to be canceled because cancel culture does not exist. Yeah. Its that kind of logic.

I will reference 2 sources because one is Fox news and we know how hurtful those words can be.

NSFW- https://www.foxnews.com/media/at-least-2-signers-of-liberal-cancel-culture-letter-back-away-from-it

https://www.thewrap.com/some-public...g-harpers-open-letter-against-cancel-culture/
Notice how fox news called it "liberal cancel culture" vs just "cancel culture?
 

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