DOJ dropping criminal case against Gen Flynn (UPDATE: DC Cir. dismisses case) (7 Viewers)

Beach Friends · May 9, 2020

Lapaz said:
What 302 are you referring to?

It does get confusing doesn't it? You are probably wondering why there was a February 2017 302 that went missing and why there was an August 2017 302 when the SOP is for them to be completed within 5 days of the interview. You are probably also wondering why the raw notes were hidden away and why people like McCabe and Lisa Page, who did not attend the meeting, were so involved in the edits.

The moose · May 9, 2020

I think you guys need some fresh air.

I mean my God we are in the middle of something pretty big now.

And we are here arguing over an admitted criminal that Donald had his chump do the work of getting him off rather than Donald doing a damn thing.

Lapaz · May 9, 2020

SaintForLife said:
I posted this in the wrong thread earlier:

Well, what do you know. This article is about a "secret phone call" between Obama and some of his former staff members. I guarantee it was purposely leaked and also it's the same reporter who was first reported on the Steele dossier and his article was used on the FISA warrant applications. These guys are STILL using the same playbook.

Exclusive: Obama says in private call that 'rule of law is at risk' in Michael Flynn case
Former President Barack Obama, talking privately to former members of his administration, said Friday that the “rule of law is at risk” in the wake of what he called an unprecedented move by the Justice Department to drop charges against former White House National Security Adviser Michael Flynn.
news.yahoo.com

Beach, What do you like about this post?

SFL,
Turley is a hack. If the Logan Act is unconstitutional, then Flynn's lawyers should argue that in court. I don't think it will be deemed unconstitutional, because if it were to be, then we would have many more treacherous acts as countries with which we have disputes would start paying Americans to undermine our disputes. He essentially acted as a double agent as he was also advising the Russians and the Trump administration. That undermines our State Department. That isn't the main charge against Flynn, because the Logan charges were dropped as part of the cooperation deal to reduce the sentence. The main charge is lying to the FBI, and if we allow that, then law and order is undermined, because people will believe there is no penalty for lying. That is the legacy of dismissing the case. Whether the FBI wants you to lie, doesn't make anyone lie. If Barr isn't convinced about the lying, then go to court over the treason, and that process will either confirm or disprove the lying.

As to the phone call being leaked playbook, you think that is unique to Democrats? That is a common tactic. Regardless, I don't doubt that Obama is willing to say all of that publicly. He is completely correct that Trump has botched the response to the pandemic. He hasn't provided any leadership throughout the pandemic.

SaintForLife · May 9, 2020

Lapaz said:
What 302 are you referring to? Why does it matter if the FBI didn't think he was lying at some point in time, if they later found evidence that he was lying? Is your position that if someone testifies to authorities, and they don't think that person is lying, then they should stop investigating that person, even if they find other reasons to investigate?

The FBI was about to close the case on Flynn before "insurance policy" Strzok asked for it to not be closed so they could pursue the Logan Act angle as a last result.

FBI docs suggest agents prepared to close Flynn case — then reversed course - POLITICO

www-politico-com.cdn.ampproject.org

I haven't studied the evidence extensively, and I doubt you have, but I have read a bit about Flynn's alleged crimes, and I believe he is a traitor. Furthermore, Flynn pled guilty twice, and that only happens when the evidence is overwhelming or you don't have any recourse. Flynn had plenty of recourse. People that don't have recourse usually don't have money nor backers. Flynn had both.

It's very clear that you haven't studied the evidence because you look totally uninformed about this subject. Can you state specifically why you think Flynn is a traitor? Flynn was pressured to take the plea deal otherwise they were going to go after his son.

SaintForLife · May 9, 2020

Lapaz said:
Beach, What do you like about this post?

SFL,
Turley is a hack. If the Logan Act is unconstitutional, then Flynn's lawyers should argue that in court. I don't think it will be deemed unconstitutional, because if it were to be, then we would have many more treacherous acts as countries with which we have disputes would start paying Americans to undermine our disputes. He essentially acted as a double agent as he was also advising the Russians and the Trump administration. That undermines our State Department. That isn't the main charge against Flynn, because the Logan charges were dropped as part of the cooperation deal to reduce the sentence. The main charge is lying to the FBI, and if we allow that, then law and order is undermined, because people will believe there is no penalty for lying. That is the legacy of dismissing the case. Whether the FBI wants you to lie, doesn't make anyone lie. If Barr isn't convinced about the lying, then go to court over the treason, and that process will either confirm or disprove the lying.

As to the phone call being leaked playbook, you think that is unique to Democrats? That is a common tactic. Regardless, I don't doubt that Obama is willing to say all of that publicly. He is completely correct that Trump has botched the response to the pandemic. He hasn't provided any leadership throughout the pandemic.

Why do you think Turley is a hack? I'm guessing because he questioned the discredited Russia case as it progressed.

You need to look into the Logan Act, because it's been thought of as unconstitutional except for some on the left when they wanted to use it against Flynn. The Logan Act has never been used to successfully prosecute any American citizen.

The FBI agents who were going to interview Flynn discussed setting a perjury trap.

cuddlemonkey · May 9, 2020

SaintForLife said:
Why do you think Turley is a hack? I'm guessing because he questioned the discredited Russia case as it progressed.

You need to look into the Logan Act, because it's been thought of as unconstitutional except for some on the left when they wanted to use it against Flynn. The Logan Act has never been used to successfully prosecute any American citizen.

The FBI agents who were going to interview Flynn discussed setting a perjury trap.

And when Reagan wanted to use it against multiple people and when Steve King claimed Pelosi violated it, of course.

SaintForLife · May 9, 2020

cuddlemonkey said:
And when Reagan wanted to use it against multiple people and when Steve King claimed Pelosi violated it, of course.

I should have been more specific. I meant that was the only time I knew of when law enforcement was considering using the Logan act. Some accused Kerry of violating it as well.

Beach Friends · May 9, 2020

Lapaz said:
Beach, What do you like about this post?

SFL,
Turley is a hack. If the Logan Act is unconstitutional, then Flynn's lawyers should argue that in court. I don't think it will be deemed unconstitutional, because if it were to be, then we would have many more treacherous acts as countries with which we have disputes would start paying Americans to undermine our disputes. He essentially acted as a double agent as he was also advising the Russians and the Trump administration. That undermines our State Department. That isn't the main charge against Flynn, because the Logan charges were dropped as part of the cooperation deal to reduce the sentence. The main charge is lying to the FBI, and if we allow that, then law and order is undermined, because people will believe there is no penalty for lying. That is the legacy of dismissing the case. Whether the FBI wants you to lie, doesn't make anyone lie. If Barr isn't convinced about the lying, then go to court over the treason, and that process will either confirm or disprove the lying.

As to the phone call being leaked playbook, you think that is unique to Democrats? That is a common tactic. Regardless, I don't doubt that Obama is willing to say all of that publicly. He is completely correct that Trump has botched the response to the pandemic. He hasn't provided any leadership throughout the pandemic.

It's a bit of a strange question, I didn't know we were in the habit of challenging each others "likes." But, for one thing I was not aware of the fact that the reporter this was leaked to is one of the go to guys for Democrats. Makes sense.

BTW, why do you say that Flynn's lawyers should make an argument that the Logan Act is unconstitutional? Is the Logan Act even relevant given the procedural posture of the case?

Lapaz · May 9, 2020

SaintForLife said:
The FBI was about to close the case on Flynn before "insurance policy" Strzok asked for it to not be closed so they could pursue the Logan Act angle as a last result.

FBI docs suggest agents prepared to close Flynn case — then reversed course - POLITICO
www-politico-com.cdn.ampproject.org

It's very clear that you haven't studied the evidence because you look totally uninformed about this subject. Can you state specifically why you think Flynn is a traitor? Flynn was pressured to take the plea deal otherwise they were going to go after his son.

What evidence have you studied other than what is published in media articles? I doubt you've read the IG report or court filings. Anyway, based on what I've read, I believe he is a traitor because he was working against US policy sanctioning Russia by telling Kysliak (sp?) that Trump would change the policy after he took office. We can't, or shouldn't allow people on campaigns of any party to go to countries we're sanctioning and promise they will remove those sanctions. That invites interference, and it seems that Russia was all in to help Trump win. Then Flynn lied about his contacts with Kysliak. What evidence do you have that the pressure to plea guilty was related to his son? What alternative evidence do you have of what Flynn was doing in Russia?

Lapaz · May 9, 2020

Beach Friends said:
It's a bit of a strange question, I didn't know we were in the habit of challenging each others "likes." But, for one thing I was not aware of the fact that the reporter this was leaked to is one of the go to guys for Democrats. Makes sense.

BTW, why do you say that Flynn's lawyers should make an argument that the Logan Act is unconstitutional? Is the Logan Act even relevant given the procedural posture of the case?

You liked SFL's post, which included Turley saying that they were going to charge Flynn with the Logan Act, and that the act is unconstitutional. I think Turley was using that as a reason that the Flynn case should be dismissed, and I was countering that it is not a good reason, because it is the law. The Justice Department has to follow the law, but Flynn's lawyer is entitled to challenge the constitutionality.

As far as why I asked about your "like", I find that you usually are a reasonable poster, but I also notice that you frequently "like" wacky posts. SFL's post wasn't wacky, but most of it didn't speak to whether Flynn was guilty or not. I was curious about what you liked this one. I get now that you believe you learned something based on the alleged leaker, but I think the source of the leak is a red herring. If it's true, then who cares who leaked it?

P.S. I usually only "like" posts that I find completely worthwhile. I sometimes read posts where I like part of it, but find other parts either overboard or wrong, so I don't "like" it. Everyone uses their own basis for how they react to posts. Your basis is reasonable.

Beach Friends · May 10, 2020

Lapaz said:
You liked SFL's post, which included Turley saying that they were going to charge Flynn with the Logan Act, and that the act is unconstitutional. I think Turley was using that as a reason that the Flynn case should be dismissed, and I was countering that it is not a good reason, because it is the law. The Justice Department has to follow the law, but Flynn's lawyer is entitled to challenge the constitutionality.

As far as why I asked about your "like", I find that you usually are a reasonable poster, but I also notice that you frequently "like" wacky posts. SFL's post wasn't wacky, but most of it didn't speak to whether Flynn was guilty or not. I was curious about what you liked this one. I get now that you believe you learned something based on the alleged leaker, but I think the source of the leak is a red herring. If it's true, then who cares who leaked it?

P.S. I usually only "like" posts that I find completely worthwhile. I sometimes read posts where I like part of it, but find other parts either overboard or wrong, so I don't "like" it. Everyone uses their own basis for how they react to posts. Your basis is reasonable.

SaintForLife is doing a good job of bringing information to the board as this story continues to break. I personally appreciate it.

SaintForLife · May 10, 2020

Lapaz said:
You liked SFL's post, which included Turley saying that they were going to charge Flynn with the Logan Act, and that the act is unconstitutional. I think Turley was using that as a reason that the Flynn case should be dismissed, and I was countering that it is not a good reason, because it is the law. The Justice Department has to follow the law, but Flynn's lawyer is entitled to challenge the constitutionality.

As far as why I asked about your "like", I find that you usually are a reasonable poster, but I also notice that you frequently "like" wacky posts. SFL's post wasn't wacky, but most of it didn't speak to whether Flynn was guilty or not. I was curious about what you liked this one. I get now that you believe you learned something based on the alleged leaker, but I think the source of the leak is a red herring. If it's true, then who cares who leaked it?

P.S. I usually only "like" posts that I find completely worthwhile. I sometimes read posts where I like part of it, but find other parts either overboard or wrong, so I don't "like" it. Everyone uses their own basis for how they react to posts. Your basis is reasonable.

That wasn't the only reason why Turley thought the case should be dismissed. His article goes over a couple reasons:

Michael Flynn case should be dismissed to preserve justice

Some more documents reveal an unlawful reason for this case.

thehill.com

SaintForLife · May 10, 2020

Lapaz said:
What evidence have you studied other than what is published in media articles? I doubt you've read the IG report or court filings. Anyway, based on what I've read, I believe he is a traitor because he was working against US policy sanctioning Russia by telling Kysliak (sp?) that Trump would change the policy after he took office. We can't, or shouldn't allow people on campaigns of any party to go to countries we're sanctioning and promise they will remove those sanctions. That invites interference, and it seems that Russia was all in to help Trump win. Then Flynn lied about his contacts with Kysliak. What evidence do you have that the pressure to plea guilty was related to his son? What alternative evidence do you have of what Flynn was doing in Russia?

Go back and look at my posts. Almost every post that contains a tweet actually has screenshots of the IG report, Mueller report, court filings, and the interviews under oath that Schiff was finally forced to release.

Flynn asked the Ambassador not escalate in response to the sanctions. How is that illegal? What do you think about the Mueller prosecutor withholding evidence that totally contradicted the government's case against Flynn until this past week?

dtc · May 10, 2020

The moose said:
Trump better win.

The statute of limitations is up after the election.

It would take seconds for the charges to be back with a new administration.

I t is shooting fish in a barrel with the guilty plea.

If trump had a pair he would have just let it go thru and pardon him. You know fix the problem.

But I guess this pandemic shows us that he completely lacks a pair enough to take the bull by the horns and fix something. During the campaign he bragged about his manhood yet acts like he is hung like a peanut.

Like a one-eyed Mario shroom.

SaintForLife · May 10, 2020

zztop said:
oh look at that, not even hiding it anymore

It looks like Vox and Meet the Press are both purposely taking that quote out of context by leaving out the next sentence from Barr

Lapaz · May 10, 2020

SaintForLife said:
Go back and look at my posts. Almost every post that contains a tweet actually has screenshots of the IG report, Mueller report, court filings, and the interviews under oath that Schiff was finally forced to release.

Flynn asked the Ambassador not escalate in response to the sanctions. How is that illegal? What do you think about the Mueller prosecutor withholding evidence that totally contradicted the government's case against Flynn until this past week?

Mueller has impecable character. If something was withheld, I’m sure there is a good explanation. Go read Taylor’s post on the home pages of this site. He explains in detail very well why Flynn is a Traitor. Here is an excerpt:
“Despite the Twitter troll accounts using three stars in their profiles to demonstrate their support for 3-star General Flynn, whom they describe as a "patriot," and Trump defenders' efforts to make him into a martyr, Flynn is far from being a patriot or a martyr. He's been selling American foreign policy for personal gain since his disgraceful exit from US military: he was part of a secret plot to extradite a US resident to Turkey; he wrote an op-ed praising Erdogan during the 2016 campaign without disclosing himself as a foreign agent for Turkey; he promised to rip up sanctions against Russia, an enemy engaging in cyber-war against the US; and he was eager and willing to provide nuclear technology to countries like Saudi Arabia with whom the US does not have counterproliferation agreements. All of these ventures were for Flynn's personal profit at the expense of US foreign policy, at the same time he was chanting "lock her up" at Trump rallies and promoting Russian troll bot accounts on twitter.”

Barr is now an accomplice to the treachery and should be impeached. If there is justice, Trump will be tried for his crimes and spend the rest of his life in prison after he leaves office.

Beach Friends · May 10, 2020

Lapaz said:
Mueller has impecable character. If something was withheld, I’m sure there is a good explanation. Go read Taylor’s post on the home pages of this site. He explains in detail very well why Flynn is a Traitor. Here is an excerpt:
“Despite the Twitter troll accounts using three stars in their profiles to demonstrate their support for 3-star General Flynn, whom they describe as a "patriot," and Trump defenders' efforts to make him into a martyr, Flynn is far from being a patriot or a martyr. He's been selling American foreign policy for personal gain since his disgraceful exit from US military: he was part of a secret plot to extradite a US resident to Turkey; he wrote an op-ed praising Erdogan during the 2016 campaign without disclosing himself as a foreign agent for Turkey; he promised to rip up sanctions against Russia, an enemy engaging in cyber-war against the US; and he was eager and willing to provide nuclear technology to countries like Saudi Arabia with whom the US does not have counterproliferation agreements. All of these ventures were for Flynn's personal profit at the expense of US foreign policy, at the same time he was chanting "lock her up" at Trump rallies and promoting Russian troll bot accounts on twitter.”

Barr is now an accomplice to the treachery and should be impeached. If there is justice, Trump will be tried for his crimes and spend the rest of his life in prison after he leaves office.

Why no discussion of what Flynn was actually charged with?

SaintForLife · May 10, 2020

Lapaz said:
Mueller has impecable character. If something was withheld, I’m sure there is a good explanation.

It's very apparent that you are woefully uninformed on this subject. Mueller doesn't have impeccable character and his investigation showed that in multiple instances. The Flynn prosecutor Van Grack was on Mueller's team and he withheld information that totally contradicted the prosecution's case. Van Grack withheld evidence, lied to Judge Sullivan, and may have committed other crimes. This Twitter thread goes over what Van Grack did and each Tweet has screenshots with official documents supporting each claim. Here are a few:

Go read Taylor’s post on the home pages of this site. He explains in detail very well why Flynn is a Traitor. Here is an excerpt:
“Despite the Twitter troll accounts using three stars in their profiles to demonstrate their support for 3-star General Flynn, whom they describe as a "patriot," and Trump defenders' efforts to make him into a martyr, Flynn is far from being a patriot or a martyr. He's been selling American foreign policy for personal gain since his disgraceful exit from US military: he was part of a secret plot to extradite a US resident to Turkey; he wrote an op-ed praising Erdogan during the 2016 campaign without disclosing himself as a foreign agent for Turkey; he promised to rip up sanctions against Russia, an enemy engaging in cyber-war against the US; and he was eager and willing to provide nuclear technology to countries like Saudi Arabia with whom the US does not have counterproliferation agreements. All of these ventures were for Flynn's personal profit at the expense of US foreign policy, at the same time he was chanting "lock her up" at Trump rallies and promoting Russian troll bot accounts on twitter.”

You are the one calling Flynn a traitor and Taylor's article doesn't show that he's a traitor either. Flynn was involved in some questionable things, but none of those things were related to Russia or the election. Taylor's article is wrong on at least one point.

Flynn didn't "promised to rip up sanctions against Russia." That was what Democrat Elijah Cummings claimed.

Flynn Promised Russia Sanctions Were To Be 'Ripped Up,' Top House Democrat Says

According to an anonymous whistleblower, a business ally of Michael Flynn exulted at Flynn's promises about the end of sanctions, the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee said Wednesday.

www.npr.org

DOJ dropping criminal case against Gen Flynn (UPDATE: DC Cir. dismisses case) (7 Viewers)

Users who are viewing this thread

Guv'nor

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known monkey

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Attachments

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Share this page

General News Feed

Fact Checkers News Feed