All Things LGBTQ+ (9 Viewers)

brandon said:

Did you even read that article?

Click to expand...

Yes, I did. What in particular did you think that I missed?

Snarky Sack said:

Yes, I did. What in particular did you think that I missed?

Click to expand...

You missed that the person pictured was protesting an actual trans female in the competition by registering as a female and winning the competition to prove a point.

The person pictured is not actually trans. He’s just a dick.

brandon said:

You missed that the person pictured was protesting an actual trans female in the competition by registering as a female and winning the competition to prove a point.

The person pictured is not actually trans. He’s just a dick.

Click to expand...

My exact judgment of Dylan Mulvaney.

Snarky Sack said:

My exact judgment of Dylan Mulvaney.

Click to expand...

Dressing in drag and being a heterosexual butt crevasse are not the same thing.

brandon said:

Dressing in drag and being a heterosexual butt crevasse are not the same thing.

Click to expand...

Where does Lia Thomas fall in that? I've never seen that person dress in drag, that's for sure. The only "women's" item I've ever seen him wear is his swimsuit, presumably tuck friendly.

You don’t see the difference between being a trans athlete and mocking a trans athlete by pretending to be one?

brandon said:

You don’t see the difference between being a trans athlete and mocking a trans athlete by pretending to be one?

Click to expand...

It's a question of where you draw the line.

Remember that the trans athlete followed the rules exactly. They beat the record of another trans athlete by 100 pounds, "casually" lifting that weight, according to the article. Do you think such rules should be adjusted to include protection against a male pretending to be trans?

Snarky Sack said:

Remember that the trans athlete followed the rules exactly.

Click to expand...

First, no he didn’t.

From the article:

However, the union’s competition registration policy states that a competitor’s “government-issued photo identification (excluding Youth lifters) must be verified during the weigh-in or equipment check, including date of birth, province, and gender at all competitions.”

It is unclear if Silverberg presented a government-issued ID identifying him as a female or was required to.

Click to expand...

“It is unclear” is NY Post speak for “of course he didn’t, because he wouldn’t have had a government-issued ID that identified him as female.”

Therefore, the protections you seek are already in the rules—they just didn’t follow them.

And lastly, even if he did manage to convince the government to issue him a female ID, that still doesn’t change that he in no way identifies as a female except in that particular instance to stick it to a trans athlete.

Do you understand the difference between blackface and actually being black? That’s literally what’s happening here.

Snarky Sack said:

It's a question of where you draw the line.

Click to expand...

No, it's a question of how you draw the line.

And you, apparently, draw it by applying your own personal, and inherently bigoted, views, engaging in willful and offensive speculation about people "trying to appeal to pedophiles"in a futile attempt to justify them, and by deliberately conflating trans people with someone mocking them by abusing inclusive rules in bad faith.

I would also add that you're being sexist as well as anti-trans in doing so. By claiming that a trans woman is not appearing sufficiently feminine by your standards, you are, inherently, applying qualifying standards of appearance for femininity in general. But women don't have to present themselves to your standards to be women. And that includes trans women.

brandon said:

First, no he didn’t.

From the article:


“It is unclear” is NY Post speak for of course he didn’t, because he wouldn’t have had a government-issued ID that identified him as female.

Click to expand...

I don't know about that. I think "unclear" means "unclear." But since it isn't my words being changed, I'll say no more.

Say you're right. Is that a flaw in the system, do you think? A transathlete not being required to present ID showing them as the gender as which they identify?

brandon said:

Therefore, the protections you seek are already in the rules—they just didn’t follow them.

Click to expand...

Do you agree with that particular protection?

brandon said:

And lastly, even if he did manage to convince the government to issue him a female ID, that still doesn’t change that he in no way identifies as a female except in that particular instance to stick it to a trans athlete.

Click to expand...

But he would be fully eligible for the competition, assuming that he did not take the trouble to do that. I wonder if the trans athlete whose record he beat had a government issued ID that said female.

brandon said:

Do you understand the difference between blackface and actually being black? That’s literally what’s happening here.

Click to expand...

Indeed I do, and indeed it is. Not only in the case of Avi Silverberg, but also Dylan Mulvaney, and Lia Thomas. Although with Lia, they make not much more effort to look like a woman than Avi. If Avi shaved, put on a women's power lifting outfit (if they are different from men's), and let his hair grow out, he would be every bit as "female" as Lia. And really the hair is a social convention that is fast disappearing.

EDIT: So is the shaving.



I'd ask for you to tell me how you envision protecting women and transwomen athletes from such posers as Avi, and Lia.

RobF said:

No, it's a question of how you draw the line.

And you, apparently, draw it by applying your own personal, and inherently bigoted, views, engaging in willful and offensive speculation about people "trying to appeal to pedophiles"in a futile attempt to justify them, and by deliberately conflating trans people with someone mocking them by abusing inclusive rules in bad faith.

I would also add that you're being sexist as well as anti-trans in doing so. By claiming that a trans woman is not appearing sufficiently feminine by your standards, you are, inherently, applying qualifying standards of appearance for femininity in general. But women don't have to present themselves to your standards to be women. And that includes trans women.

Click to expand...

How do you draw the line, then?

cuddlemonkey said:

Person B is not stating an opinion. Saying "you are wrong, you are not X" is not only a statement of fact, it's a refutation of someone's core identity. Person B is refusing to acknowledge that Person A is who they are at their most basic layer.

Click to expand...

A little boundaries exercise for everyone:

I am not making this up: my wife met this person? who says its pronouns are it/they because it believes it is not human. If I were to tell this individual "you are wrong, you are human", would that be an opinion, and me refusing to acknowledge who that individual is at its more basic level?

Snarky Sack said:

I'd ask for you to tell me how you envision protecting women and transwomen athletes from such posers as Avi, and Lia.

Click to expand...

I’ll refer you back to our conversation from earlier this week.

There is still plenty of room to discuss how to best achieve fairness for female competitors and trans athletes.

But men posing as women to win women’s titles is a made-up problem. Your heterosexual man posing as a woman to mock trans athletes is the exception that proves the rule.

Snarky Sack said:

I'll bore you with an anecdote:

I'm a teacher of behavior to students with disabilities such as autism, ADHD, and emotional disturbance, which is an educators term for mental illness. I have a student coming from another school specifically to participate in my program. I'll use "they" this one time. They are biologically female but identify as male. They prefer a "boys name" that is but one letter off from their birth certificate name.

At her previous school, most of her behavior issues started with teachers not using her preferred name and pronouns. This seventh grader, rightly or wrongly, divided teachers onto those that respect them and those who do not. When she did not feel respected, the class became a power struggle instead of a learning opportunity.

I made a plea to my fellow and sister teachers that they take that into account. I'm not their bosses, so it will be up to them.

Click to expand...

Are you using he/him or she/her for this student?

SystemShock said:

A little boundaries exercise for everyone:

I am not making this up: my wife met this person? who says its pronouns are it/they because it believes it is not human. If I were to tell this individual "you are wrong, you are human", would that be an opinion, and me refusing to acknowledge who that individual is at its more basic level?

Click to expand...

I would go with the option I laid out for Snarky: use this individual's preferred pronouns and keep the rest of it to yourself. It's not hard.

cuddlemonkey said:

Are you using he/him or she/her for this student?

Click to expand...

Depends who I'm talking to. With the student, I say "Hi Bob," not "Hi Bobi" (not the real names), and he/him. When I talked to the teachers on my campus about the student, I called the student "the student." I was trying to persuade, not force. When I talk to a counselor or the behavior specialist who first told me about the student, I used "they/them."

I hope the teachers use Bob's preferred pronouns, but I would be appalled if they were required to do so against their beliefs.

Snarky Sack said:

I hope the teachers use Bob's preferred pronouns, but I would be appalled if they were required to do so against their beliefs.

Click to expand...

What beliefs are those? That trans people don’t exist?

brandon said:

What beliefs are those? That trans people don’t exist?

Click to expand...

No.