The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (17 Viewers)

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    Lapaz

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    There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.



    Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

    Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.
     
    Dude. Why aren’t these mother forkers getting sanctioned?


    The rest..

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    Ah yes, a small group of important and courageous people overturning an election result. The backbone of any democracy.
    Well yeah when you say it like that it does sound bad lol.. but his supporters don't even view it as overturning a legitimate result but instead see it as eliminating the fraud that produced an illegitimate result the first time.

    And they're just ain't a lot you can do with that when you have Trump and so many Republicans constantly driving this shirt home to an audience of Trump cultists.
     
    This will come as a surprise to ...basically nobody.

    I read a recent poll that something like 78% of people that regularly watch faux news thinks the election was a fraud.
    And that 50-ish % people who only occasionally watched faux news thought it was a fraud.
    Contrast this with people who never or rarely watched faux news, was around 80% that thought the election was legit and not rigged etc.

    Faux is really doing a good job (for some people).

    You have other places like newsmax, that jumped 300-ish % in viewership since trump started talking about them.

    Now I'm wondering, how long before trump and faux news starts to try to undermine and invalidate the court system. Seems like it would only be a matter of time, which ironically, a lot of it was packed by republicans
     
    Full disclosure, I live in Texas, but...

    My FB feed has got quite a few people calling for Trump to declare martial law and hold a new election. Think about how broken you must be to want to allow an orange reality TV star to go full Saddam Hussein just to stick it to the libs.
     
    Full disclosure, I live in Texas, but...

    My FB feed has got quite a few people calling for Trump to declare martial law and hold a new election. Think about how broken you must be to want to allow an orange reality TV star to go full Saddam Hussein just to stick it to the libs.
    Have you ever read or watched "It Can't Happen Here?" They used a character more like Huey P Long, but it's a heck of a story about how easily we could become a dictatorship.

    Shows you how willing some are to have that happen. Control the news, control reality.
     
    This will come as a surprise to ...basically nobody.

    I read a recent poll that something like 78% of people that regularly watch faux news thinks the election was a fraud.
    And that 50-ish % people who only occasionally watched faux news thought it was a fraud.
    Contrast this with people who never or rarely watched faux news, was around 80% that thought the election was legit and not rigged etc.

    Faux is really doing a good job (for some people).

    You have other places like newsmax, that jumped 300-ish % in viewership since trump started talking about them.

    Now I'm wondering, how long before trump and faux news starts to try to undermine and invalidate the court system. Seems like it would only be a matter of time, which ironically, a lot of it was packed by republicans
    Here's the thing about those 78%, they have become so radicalized that faux news is now hated by them! Now, how do you reach out to them???
     
    Full disclosure, I live in Texas, but...

    My FB feed has got quite a few people calling for Trump to declare martial law and hold a new election. Think about how broken you must be to want to allow an orange reality TV star to go full Saddam Hussein just to stick it to the libs.
    I haven't seen that yet, but I know that I have some relatives that I am sure would be okay with it. It is all about team. If the team wins, well...that is all that matters.

    I would trade my candidate losing every election for the rest of my life in exchange for the Constitution and free elections determining the winner every election.
     
    Now I'm wondering, how long before trump and faux news starts to try to undermine and invalidate the court system. Seems like it would only be a matter of time, which ironically, a lot of it was packed by republicans
    The US court system is arguably the institution that held up the best against authoritarian attacks over the past 4 years. The near-universal rejection of Trump-backed litigation over the election by judges on all sides is just one example of that. Trump thought packing SCOTUS would give him a legal safety net if he lost the election because he's an idiot who doesn't understand the court system and who thinks everyone is as corrupt as he is.

    Fox-watching Rs will continue to discredit any judge who rules against them, and will praise any judge who rules in their favor. Who cares. Trump-installed judges can and will do a great deal of harm, but the system is huge, and there's no cohesive view among these judges to undermine the very system they're a part of. And not all of the Trump-installed judges are even bad judges -- in the Western District of Louisiana (US), for example, my experience with the new judges is that they're fair and value the rule of law. Surely there are plenty of other decent ones in a system with hundreds of judges from many points of view.

    I share your concerns about the damage Fox and others have done to shared notions of truth, etc., but the court system has been a great indication of the potential strength of (small d) democratic institutions, and I'm not sure the task you're describing is a simple one for the would-be authoritarians. It doesn't mean our work is done now that Biden's president, it just means that we can take a deep breath and appreciate that the system appears to still be intact. The post-election turmoil will end with Biden's inauguration despite the efforts of nearly all of the party that's been in power for 4 years -- as democracies go, that's impressive.
     
    Have you ever read or watched "It Can't Happen Here?" They used a character more like Huey P Long, but it's a heck of a story about how easily we could become a dictatorship.

    Shows you how willing some are to have that happen. Control the news, control reality.
    I'm a broken record, but along these lines, "How Democracies Die" is the best book I read in 2020. Despite the optimism in my prior post, the situation here is more fragile than I'd ever realized.

    Edit: There is a chapter discussing Huey P Long, Henry Ford, and other populist demagogues with authoritarian tendencies.
     
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    Trump thought packing SCOTUS would give him a legal safety net if he lost the election because he's an idiot who doesn't understand the court system and who thinks everyone is as corrupt as he is.

    Definitely agree with this. Of course the Court hasn’t ruled yet but we all know how it ends. The question is what does Trump do when the Court denies any relief?
     
    The question is what does Trump do when the Court denies any relief?





    This question has no good answers, since Trump is currently living in his own fact-free, Covid-free reality.. He knows that if he loses his Presidential powers, he’ll be prosecuted by the state of NY, which as we all know by know is immune from pardons.. He realizes that his ‘empire’ will start to crumble on Jan 21st.. As much as it pains me to attempt to think like Trump, I think if i were in his shoes, i would do ANYTHING to maintain power.. he is exactly the type who would rather bring the country and the world down with him if he knows he’s going down- and he does know.. I wouldnt put one thing past him if his legal Hail Marys fail- launching nukes or any other worst case scenarios you can imagine.. We are in a very dangerous time folks, buckle up.
     

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