Federal criminal investigation Hunter Biden focuses on his business dealings (Update: DOJ appoints special counsel) (10 Viewers)

Infoman said:

You are like 1 more whataboutism (or answer a question with a question) away from the ignore list... and yes... It's concerning... and Trump is a turd.... but that's not the topic here.

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All politicians are crooked? This does not strike me as revelatory. I doubt you could find any candidate in the race -- including the most obscure of third party candidates -- that was above reproach. I'm assuming most voters vote based on policy. Regardless of what Trump or Biden have done in their personal capacities, in my opinion Trump, in his capacity as President, has been disastrous on multiple levels of policy. Removing him is an imperative. Not because I personally hate him, but because I believe it would be damaging to this country. So... I dunno... if you'd call that 'what-about-ism.' I don't vote for libertarians because I believe any pure libertarian platform, while fine in theory, would not work in the real world.

Taurus said:

Or that the effing Vice President of the entire United gosh darned States had to borrow money to pay for his kid's cancer treatment.

Jesus Hopscotching Christ do we live in a f'd up society.

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And his kid was a military vet. And AG of Delaware.

Not like he didn't have insurance. Still didn't matter.

Infoman said:

Serious question... wouldn't this type of financial situation make it more likely (and not less) that he and his son would sell influence for cash...?

Not saying that's what he did... I don't buy that he's poor middle class Joe to begin with (or has been for a while)

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I don't think there is any reasonable doubt that Hunter Biden leveraged his name to open doors for him. If someone is denying that I'll have a hard time taking them seriously. It's a pretty cut and dry case, IMO. However, I have seen nothing to show Joe participated in it. When I look at his finances, quite the opposite.

Based on his financial records Joe Biden was the poorest man in the Senate for a long time. Now, maybe that's like being the ugliest woman in the beauty pageant, but to me, it does say something about his willingness to sell influence for personal gain. Until 2017 he literally recorded almost no income outside of his government salary on his tax returns. His level of debt reflected that of a man living above his means and that debt stayed with him (and grew) until 2017. All of that tells me this was not a man selling influence.

So, based on all of that I believe it was Hunter, not Joe, benefiting from Joe's position. If he was going to sell influence I'd think he would have done it while his son was dying of brain cancer and crushed under the weight of the debt of medical bills. Nothing moves a parent more than seeing their child suffer. There's no time he would have been more vulnerable and instead, he put his dream home up for sale and was bailed out by his boss, the President of the United States.

The good news is today, Joe has no debt. He's rich. He got rich in his 70's selling books and giving speeches, like a lot of ex-Presidents and VP's. I actually find that kind of unseemly, but it's the way things have gone since Reagan. I would feel really confident that if money hasn't dictated Joe's decisions up until this time, it won't now that he's old and bathing in cash.

SaulGoodmanEsq said:

All politicians are crooked? This does not strike me as revelatory. I doubt you could find any candidate in the race -- including the most obscure of third party candidates -- that was above reproach. I'm assuming most voters vote based on policy. Regardless of what Trump or Biden have done in their personal capacities, in my opinion Trump, in his capacity as President, has been disastrous on multiple levels of policy. Removing him is an imperative. Not because I personally hate him, but because I believe it would be damaging to this country. So... I dunno... if you'd call that 'what-about-ism.' I don't vote for libertarians because I believe any pure libertarian platform, while fine in theory, would not work in the real world.

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So we are going with good ole' lesser of 2 evils... already addressed this many times too... No such thing IMO.... and while Trump is a dangerous and self absorbed asre-hat... all of the problems we face as a country today existed before he was elected.... All of them.... he obviously amplified them in a divisive way.... but Trump didn't invent them.

We can't keep justifying one side of ridiculousness by saying... sure it's ridiculous.... but what about this extreme ridiculousness over here????

We don't need to make every conversation about him.... because it's a cop out.... the real problem is the system... Trump and his minions are a product of that system being screwed up, and overcompensating... the same system that produced the far left uber elites that claim to be champions of the people - have run the country for decades while accepting $$$ from the same people and companies they claim they will tax to death - and protect us from.... the candidate puppet-heads of the populists and quasi-socialists mean little... it's the system we have to change, not the phony figureheads on top of it.... until we change the system... another idiot will just take their place every time we vote one out.

Saint by the Bay said:

So, based on all of that I believe it was Hunter, not Joe, benefiting from Joe's position.

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How is it possible for Hunter to benefit from Joe's position... unless Joe participates in what would benefit Hunter? There has to be a give and take... there has to be favor.... there has to be a return on investment... simply being has no benefit.

Infoman said:

all of the problems we face as a country today existed before he was elected.... All of them.... he obviously amplified them in a divisive way.... but Trump didn't invent them.

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Oh, i dont know.. just off the top of my not-so-bright head, i think of the fact that, before ol’ Trump came along, we actually had a PANDEMIC RESPONSE TEAM... Which he and his administration disbanded.. Combine that, along with his “The virus will just disappear like a miracle“ and “We’ll be down to ZERO cases by the end of March!” nonsense - and that’s one example of how Trump “invented” an entirely new level of incompetence that simply did not exist before.

Infoman said:

So we are going with good ole' lesser of 2 evils... already addressed this many times too... No such thing IMO.... and while Trump is a dangerous and self absorbed asre-hat... all of the problems we face as a country today existed before he was elected.... All of them.... he obviously amplified them in a divisive way.... but Trump didn't invent them.

We can't keep justifying one side of ridiculousness by saying... sure it's ridiculous.... but what about this extreme ridiculousness over here????

We don't need to make every conversation about him.... because it's a cop out.... the real problem is the system... Trump and his minions are a product of that system being screwed up, and overcompensating... the same system that produced the far left uber elites that claim to be champions of the people - have run the country for decades while accepting $$$ from the same people and companies they claim they will tax to death - and protect us from.... the candidate puppet-heads of the populists and quasi-socialists mean little... it's the system we have to change, not the phony figureheads on top of it.... until we change the system... another idiot will just take their place every time we vote one out.

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It's not 'lesser of two evils.' As I said, Biden's policies most align with mine. So am I to ignore that because Jo Jorgensen or Howie Hawkins might be more on the straight-and-narrow despite that I find a lot of their policies ludicrous? I guess I don't see much of a distinction between 'what-about-ism' and 'what-about-them-ism' aka dismissing the system entirely. And why assume if Libertarians or Greens or whoever come into power they would be any better? Wouldn't the system ultimately corrupt them, too?

I'm actually not a fan of the Constitution and think European Parliamentary-style government is far superior. But that will never happen here. I do, however, recognize the immediate and clear threat Trump poses to democracy. And if you think it can't get worse or further from what you hold to be the ideal form of government... believe me... it can.

Infoman said:

How is it possible for Hunter to benefit from Joe's position... unless Joe participates in what would benefit Hunter? There has to be a give and take... there has to be favor.... there has to be a return on investment... simply being has no benefit.

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Hunter signed a 5 years contract with Burisma in 2014. The contract wasn't renewed and there's nothing to show they received any actual benefit from that, at least with the US. Hunter did reportedly connect them with some people in China they did profitable deals with. Those were contacts he had from BHR Holdings. This is where Burisma really got value for their money.

However, they were really paying for the potential. Think of it as drafting a rookie QB. He hasn't done anything yet, you are paying him for the potential he will. It's a risk, but you go for it because you believe the risk/reward equation is worth it. Every Board of Directors is largely this way. You are giving them some form of equity in return for the benefit they may serve. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but they still get their equity.

Hunter was effectively selling access, like a lobbyist. A lobbyist is paid for their access and being the son of the VP of the US comes with a certain amount of access, even if Joe isn't directly offering anything. That's how he benefits off his name, the same way former politicians do, by selling access.

Note: I'm not even going to touch how much of what we know is even accurate. There's a lot of claims of Russian disinformation around Hunter in order to hurt Biden, but I don't think there can be a productive conversation on that since it's all hearsay.

Infoman, I know you like to think you’re not partisan, but I just don’t see it that way. You’re just as partisan as anyone on this board. Maybe even on the upper end, hard to say.

I know this because you look at a dumpster fire which has brought this country down in almost every way, and a regular middle of the road politician, known as one of the least corrupt of his generation, and say they are the same. If that’s not a partisan take, I don’t know what could be more partisan.

Infoman said:

You are like 1 more whataboutism (or answer a question with a question) away from the ignore list... and yes... It's concerning... and Trump is a turd.... but that's not the topic here.

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Like 1 or just 1?

You asked about Biden's debt as if it had some direct correlation to his ethical character. Since you never chimed in about Trump's debt, it's a fair question since I'd like to know what your stance was on that very issue since you seem to raise issue in this case.

You have repeatedly said you aren't voting for either, so the real question is why do you even care?

As pointed to, there is no factual evidence to support the thought that Biden tossed out his ethics in chase of the dollar.

Ignore me if you feel the need. I may miss your drop in every 48 hr posts but I'm sure I'll get over it.

Man, there is absolutely nothing on the up and up about how these emails got to Rudy.

Infoman said:

I get it SBTB... and I know how real estate works. I have seen the reports on his book deals and speaking fees (NICE!)....

Let's just say I think the Poor Ole' Middle Class Joe mantra is less than genuine, and even if you buy that.... It's not a reason to dismiss the claims against his son (if we are being fair and impartial).

I don't have a solid opinion on this yet as it relates to his Son's dealings, or for the potential/likelihood for Joe to have direct involvement... but I am not going to dismiss it because he's Good Ole' Middle Class Joe either... Million dollar properties and mansions (or the debate on how he obtained them) not-withstanding.

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What income bracket do you consider middle class? It seems like in your mind middle class has a lower income than it actually does.

Infoman said:

You are like 1 more whataboutism (or answer a question with a question) away from the ignore list... and yes... It's concerning... and Trump is a turd.... but that's not the topic here.

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The entire foundation of your "I'm against both sides" is the very same "whataboutism" that you laugh at others for allegedly doing. You frequently drop into topics specifically and explicitly about Trump to say "those on the other side or just as bad."

Now you are trying to dismiss and distract from Trump on the grounds of "that's not the topic here."

Your supposed not taking sides is applied in a very one-sided way.

I'm only stating my observations about you, because all of your posts in this thread are filled with your opinions and perceptions of the motivations and behaviors of others.

Infoman said:

So we are going with good ole' lesser of 2 evils... already addressed this many times too... No such thing IMO.... and while Trump is a dangerous and self absorbed asre-hat... all of the problems we face as a country today existed before he was elected.... All of them.... he obviously amplified them in a divisive way.... but Trump didn't invent them.

We can't keep justifying one side of ridiculousness by saying... sure it's ridiculous.... but what about this extreme ridiculousness over here????

We don't need to make every conversation about him.... because it's a cop out.... the real problem is the system... Trump and his minions are a product of that system being screwed up, and overcompensating... the same system that produced the far left uber elites that claim to be champions of the people - have run the country for decades while accepting $$$ from the same people and companies they claim they will tax to death - and protect us from.... the candidate puppet-heads of the populists and quasi-socialists mean little... it's the system we have to change, not the phony figureheads on top of it.... until we change the system... another idiot will just take their place every time we vote one out.

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Are you voting for a candidate you know will lose? Abstaining? Do you not vote for state candidates from major parties? Are you actively supporting ranked choice campaigns?

I think you see the options as eating one of two shirt sandwiches or starving. I hope you are doing something to either change the situation or how you view it.

B4YOU said:

Are you voting for a candidate you know will lose? Abstaining? Do you not vote for state candidates from major parties? Are you actively supporting ranked choice campaigns?

I think you see the options as eating one of two shirt sandwiches or starving. I hope you are doing something to either change the situation or how you view it.

Ranked Choice Voting - FairVote

Ranked choice voting makes our elections better by allowing voters to rank candidates in order of preference.

www.fairvote.org

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If there were five people on the ballot, he would just vote for "all five sides are bad" and then hope the Republican candidate won.

So turns out the feds are looking into those Hunter Biden emails, just not the way some think they are. They are evidently investigating if the source is Russian intelligence. Trump had been warned about it and did nothing to stop it.

EmBeeFiveOhFour said:

If there were five people on the ballot, he would just vote for "all five sides are bad" and then hope the Republican candidate won.

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My parents talk about how they hate Trump as a person, yet they're voting for him on "policy" (and not so subtle hatred of all Democrats because they watch too much Fox News). They consider themselves "free thinkers" too.

I vote 3rd party in Presidential elections. I voted JBE for governor. I vote for the candidate I most align with in local elections, and I do my damnedest to ignore the letter next to their names on the ballot.

I know that’s hard for some of you to fathom. But it’s true.

I’m in the middle on social issues and I’m more fiscally conservative.

Trump is a worthless meat sack. The DNC as it exists today is no better IMO.

I love the constitution. I hate the war on drugs and all the issues that it directly inflicts on poor communities and people of color.

I think everyone should be able to marry who they choose to and no one should be discriminated against for any reason, nor should they be treated preferably for any reason.

I support LEOs but also support the idea that changes in policing need to be made and education and community dialogue is a big part of that.

I am for ranked choice.

I believe the only way forward is together. And our 2 party system is designed to fail us in that regard.

Capitalism and free markets are not perfect, but the alternative is being a government dependent semi-slave.

I’m not a fan of abortion or it being a right. But I also believe exceptions are obvious. Like rape, incest, mother’s life in danger etc.

I can go on all day. But I am anything but a single minded ideological partisan.