Tyre Nichols killing by Memphis police (1 Viewer)

[Lapaz]

I wanted to discuss the odd statistical anomaly about the races of the 5 cops that killed Tryre Nichols. I looked up the demographics of the Memphis police department, and 67% are white, 9% hispanic, and only 13% are black. That's only 89%, so I guess the rest are either a smaller racial group such as asians, or they didn't declare a race, in which case they are probably of mixed race. The 5 cops that were charged were all clearly black, not mixed race. I'm not a statistical expert, but I think the odds that all of the cops would be clearly black are 0.13^5, which is a 0.0037% chance of all cops being black, without any other intervening factors. It got me wondering about whether this extremely unlikely statistical anomaly could've happened without some type of internal Memphis policy. There could be other explanations, but I have a suspicion that it has to do with an internal decision within the Memphis police department to match the cop's race to the the suspect's race in order to try to avoid some of the racial bias claims that have been levied on other police departments. I haven't heard this anywhere, but I'm expecting this angle to be explored. If the Memphis police department is using such a policy, I blame it on our society making everything so racial that it is affecting how the police department decides to assign cops to avoid bad perceptions.

I'm also wondering if there will be claims that the cops were charged more quickly because they were black, whereas if the cops had been white, some may claim that they would not have been charged as quickly. Just after I wrote this, I heard a couple of blacks making this claim on the Dan Abrams Show. They were saying that they had never seen such quick charges, so it must be because they were black. I'm looking forward to seeing the videos, because maybe they were so egregious that any delays would've been an injustice. If so, then the Memphis police department deserves praise for acting quickly, rather than spinning it as a negative.

I'm also wondering how this incident would've been covered if the victim had been white, and all black cops. Maybe such an extremely unlikely scenario would've still been covered, but I have my doubts, because I've looked up the statistics, and more whites are killed by police than blacks, yet I don't remember the last white incident that was in the media. I know the demographics argument, but I think the problem is more of a media creation. I just heard a black lady on the Abrams show about how much more she has to be worried about her kid than a white lady. We may not even be hearing about this if the victim was white, and that over-coverage by the media is what creates the fear of cops in black mothers. Dan Abrams just told his callers that it is a media creation about black men being killed more often, but then he also went on to say that more blacks have unjustified interactions, which I think is also more of a media creation. I think the interactions are probably mostly based on suspicious actions, rather than race. Media over-coverage is the same reason that many people seem to believe that murder rates are much worse today than decades ago, despite the data indicating that murder rates have drastically declined.

 

[Lapaz]

From listening to an NPR report this morning, the 5 officers where part of a special group/taskforce called Scorpion. I don't know what the groups purpose was or why they stopped Tyre Nicols, but the reason they were all together was by design of the department. The officers didn't all randomly show up there and just happen to all be black.

If the department designed the task force by race, then that would support my suspicion that the Memphis police department is concerned about police bias claims, so they are pre-empting that claim by dispatching cops to like race suspects. That's an outcome of this media creation about police bias.

 

[coldseat]

If the department designed the task force by race, then that would support my suspicion that the Memphis police department is concerned about police bias claims, so they are pre-empting that claim by dispatching cops to like race suspects. That's an outcome of this media creation about police bias.

That would depend on why the group was created and what its' purpose is. That's only speculation without more information.

Also, let's assume that the Memphis police department was concerned about police bias claims and created this taskforce to address it. That doesn't mean that police bias is a media creation. Perhaps media pressure could have influenced the way the Memphis police department decided to address police bias, but that in and of itself doesn't mean that police bias itself is a media creation. There is a lot of proof of bias in policing that has nothing to do with the media, but with scientific studies that were done.

https://www.policechiefmagazine.org/addressing-implicit-bias-in-policing/

 

[MT15]

If the department designed the task force by race, then that would support my suspicion that the Memphis police department is concerned about police bias claims, so they are pre-empting that claim by dispatching cops to like race suspects. That's an outcome of this media creation about police bias.

Whole lot of jumping to conclusions throughout.

 

[Lapaz]

That's not a reverse of my challenge. That's an altogether different challenge. I have a natural bias and I'm pretty sure it came through in my post much the same way that your bias comes through in your response.

My take is that you're far too defensive. I simply asked you not to refer to black people as "blacks". You correcting yourself later in your paragraph is tantamount to using a slur in one sentence and then not using a slur. Is is too much for me to ask you to not refer to black people as "blacks"?

I agree that it is nonsense that it is a media creation.

You interjected defunding the police. I think defunding the police was a stupid idea from the start. The solution is the end of qualified immunity. Full stop.

I never made that argument.

I disagree.

I don't have time to respond to all of your post, but while you can disagree about the statistics, here is where I get mine:

People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2024 | Statista

The trend of fatal police shootings in the U.S. seems to only be increasing each year, with 1,097 civilians, 225 of whom were Black, killed by police in 2022.

www.statista.com

I don't know any black folks that teach their kids to resist police. That's counterintuitive to coming out of an encounter alive.

It seems counterintuitive, and it shocked me that he taught that to his kid. The reason it seems true, is I think almost every killing that I've seen in the media were of people that were resisting arrest. That's not to justify it, but it certainly makes it more likely to lead to bad outcomes.

 

[Lapaz]

Whole lot of jumping to conclusions throughout.

I'm speculating, not concluding.

 

[First Time Poster]

So, some insight on the "Scorpion" unit:

Based on my personal experience, reform work in various communities and general research, this Scorpion unit fits the bill of what a lot of municipalities will call a suppression and/or saturation unit. A popular example of this is the TV show "Bait Car." A city is experiencing issues with car theft, particularly in a certain area of the city, and rather than increase patrol units or foot soldiers to combat the problem, the city will create a task force specifically designed for this purpose.

For instance, New Orleans is having major issues with car break ins particularly during sporting events. Rather than increase police patrols around these events, where there could be gaps, a task force could crested. That unit will saturate the area and look to suppress this activity. In theory and intent, useful.

The problem is that these units are perfect vessels for misuse with a system and institution rife with abuse and lack of oversight, reform and accountability.

I am going to make a follow up post about issues I've expressed with these units but I want to take a quick moment to say this. Defund the Police was supposed to be about discussion, debate, reform and change of nuanced topics like these units. Instead of squabbling about the phrasing and title of said movement and what the extremists, on both sides, tried to falsely portray it meant, it should be about investigating and studying what the budget is spent on and whether or not having these units is a worthwhile use of those funds or if we need to reexamine or reimagine what units like this look like and the parameters they work under.

Save the Whales can mean a lot of things. We don't reduce it to hijacking Klingnon warships, going back in time, beaming aboard two Humpbacks, going back to the future and beaming them into the ocean. Don't work on the margins.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I'm skeptical of this. We have way too many examples when the right thing to do either was delayed far too long or never done at all not to be skeptical

Why would you be skeptical when they do the right thing vs when they haven't? The time to be skeptical is all those times they delay or never do anything at all.

 

[bdb13]

Why would you be skeptical when they do the right thing vs when they haven't? The time to be skeptical is all those times they delay or never do anything at all.

He can correct me if I'm wrong but he's skeptical that five white cops would have been arrested and charged so quickly if everything else was the same.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

He can correct me if I'm wrong but he's skeptical that five white cops would have been arrested and charged so quickly if everything else was the same.

I understand, but from all I've gathered the right thing was done here. Let's not cloud this incident with racial bias. Haven't we had enough of that? Shouldn't we applaud the Memphis chief of police, Cerelyn J. Davis, who seems like an outstanding individual to me?

 

[bdb13]

I understand, but from all I've gathered the right thing was done here. Let's not cloud this incident with racial bias. Haven't we had enough of that? Shouldn't we applaud the Memphis chief of police, who seems like an outstanding individual to me?

Yeah, I would agree that speculating in that way probably doesn't do any sort of good and that the focus there should mostly be towards the fact that the right thing was done.

 

[Optimus Prime]

posted this on EE also
=================

............How do we explain Nichols’ horrific killing, allegedly at the hands of police who looked like him?

From the King beating to the murder nearly three years ago of George Floyd, American society has often focused on the race of the officers — so often White — as a factor in their deplorable acts of violence.

But the narrative “White cop kills unarmed Black man” should never have been the sole lens through which we attempted to understand police abuse and misconduct. It’s time to move to a more nuanced discussion of the way police violence endangers Black lives.

One of the sad facts about anti-Black racism is that Black people ourselves are not immune to its pernicious effects. Society’s message that Black people are inferior, unworthy and dangerous is pervasive. Over many decades, numerous experiments have shown that these ideas can infiltrate Black minds as well as White. Self-hatred is a real thing.

That’s why a Black store owner might regard customers of his same race with suspicion, while treating his White patrons with deference. Black people can harbor anti-Black sentiments and can act on those feelings in harmful ways.

Black cops are often socialized in police departments that view certain neighborhoods as war zones. In those departments, few officers get disciplined for dishing out “street justice” in certain precincts — often populated by Black, brown or low-income people — where there is a tacit understanding that the “rulebook” simply doesn’t apply.

Cops of all colors, including Black police officers, internalize those messages — and sometimes act on them. In fact, in Black neighborhoods, the phenomenon of brutal Black cops singling out young Black men for abuse is nothing new. Back in 1989, the rap group NWA highlighted the problem in a classic hip-hop anthem, in which Ice Cube rapped:

“But don’t let it be a Black and White (cop)/

Coz they’ll slam ya/

Down to the street top/

Black police showing out for the White cop.”

When it comes to police violence, race does matter — but possibly not the way you think.

At the end of the day, it is the race of the victim who is brutalized — not the race of the violent cop — that is most relevant in determining whether racial bias is a factor in police violence. It’s hard to imagine five cops of any color beating a White person to death under similar circumstances. And it is almost impossible to imagine five Black cops giving a White arrestee the kind of beat-down that Nichols allegedly received...........

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

He can correct me if I'm wrong but he's skeptical that five white cops would have been arrested and charged so quickly if everything else was the same.

That's exactly what I'm skeptical about. Racial disparities in discipline is a real thing

From 5 minute time out vs suspension in kindergarten to suspension vs murder charges here

I'd like to believe that the quick firing and charges would have happened if all 5 cops were white, but it's possible that it would've happened differently

 

[Lapaz]

posted this on EE also
=================

............How do we explain Nichols’ horrific killing, allegedly at the hands of police who looked like him?

From the King beating to the murder nearly three years ago of George Floyd, American society has often focused on the race of the officers — so often White — as a factor in their deplorable acts of violence.

But the narrative “White cop kills unarmed Black man” should never have been the sole lens through which we attempted to understand police abuse and misconduct. It’s time to move to a more nuanced discussion of the way police violence endangers Black lives.

One of the sad facts about anti-Black racism is that Black people ourselves are not immune to its pernicious effects. Society’s message that Black people are inferior, unworthy and dangerous is pervasive. Over many decades, numerous experiments have shown that these ideas can infiltrate Black minds as well as White. Self-hatred is a real thing.

That’s why a Black store owner might regard customers of his same race with suspicion, while treating his White patrons with deference. Black people can harbor anti-Black sentiments and can act on those feelings in harmful ways.

Black cops are often socialized in police departments that view certain neighborhoods as war zones. In those departments, few officers get disciplined for dishing out “street justice” in certain precincts — often populated by Black, brown or low-income people — where there is a tacit understanding that the “rulebook” simply doesn’t apply.

Cops of all colors, including Black police officers, internalize those messages — and sometimes act on them. In fact, in Black neighborhoods, the phenomenon of brutal Black cops singling out young Black men for abuse is nothing new. Back in 1989, the rap group NWA highlighted the problem in a classic hip-hop anthem, in which Ice Cube rapped:

“But don’t let it be a Black and White (cop)/

Coz they’ll slam ya/

Down to the street top/

Black police showing out for the White cop.”

When it comes to police violence, race does matter — but possibly not the way you think.

At the end of the day, it is the race of the victim who is brutalized — not the race of the violent cop — that is most relevant in determining whether racial bias is a factor in police violence. It’s hard to imagine five cops of any color beating a White person to death under similar circumstances. And it is almost impossible to imagine five Black cops giving a White arrestee the kind of beat-down that Nichols allegedly received...........

MSN

www.msn.com

I don’t think the narrative that blacks are the primary victims is valid. It’s anecdotal, but my very white ex brother in law was beaten almost to death. He wore long haired young man and probably was disrespectful, knowing his mouth. Stats show that cops are much less biased towards killing blacks than this narrative suggests, so I suspect that this narrative about how much worse it is for black people in general is also over-blown.

 

[Lapaz]

Yeah, I would agree that speculating in that way probably doesn't do any sort of good and that the focus there should mostly be towards the fact that the right thing was done.

It appears that at least part of the reason for the fairly quick charges is to stave off riots. The charges may be premature, and that would not be the right thing.

 

[bdb13]

It appears that at least part of the reason for the fairly quick charges is to stave off riots. The charges may be premature, and that would not be the right thing.

Why do you believe the charges may be premature? I'm assuming it's largely based upon the video they've seen and it's quite possible the video makes it clear murder charges are warranted.

 

[bdb13]

The video is out and they are clearly and absolutely guilty of murder.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

The video is out and they are clearly and absolutely guilty of murder.

Frankly, there should be more than five being charged IMHO. And whoever those EMTs/firefighters were who should up and did little to render care, they should be fired.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Reason #10,000,000 as to why qualified immunity needs to be abolished...