Ruth Bader Ginsburg has passed (Replaced by Amy Coney Barrett)(Now Abortion Discussion) (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Ugh... breaking news I DID NOT want to see.

ETA: Reported on CNN.

 

[MT15]

Just so we are clear, we are comparing slavery to abortion?

Do you think everyone in every state should have the same laws and taxes?

sigh, no, I’m comparing your use of “let every state have a different standard” as a way of denying women’s rights to the southern states’ use of “states rights” to deny personhood to black people.

It‘s the means of the defense of having different takes on personal freedom between states that I am comparing.

I think basic freedoms should be the same in all states, do you think basic freedoms should differ between the states? I guess you do, obviously, but why do you feel that way?

 

[Farb]

Yes.

Can you show me, it can be mother occupy democrats for all I care, where they stated that the IRS issued and apology just to avoid a 'PR nightmare'?

 

[Farb]

and this is where we reach the impasse. I agree with you. Every person should have the same rights and liberties regardless of where one lives.

To me, the child's life deserves the same protection of personhood as anyone else. You don't think that child is a child yet so to me, that is the main disconnect.

 

[MT15]

Agreed, Farb. In addition, your belief that it is a child is a religious belief, which doesn’t belong as part of the government’s code.

 

[SamAndreas]

and this is where we reach the impasse. I agree with you. Every person should have the same rights and liberties regardless of where one lives.

To me, the child's life deserves the same protection of personhood as anyone else. You don't think that child is a child yet so to me, that is the main disconnect.

The LORD GOD doesn't think so. He told Moses to tell Israel (the men people) that they could ask priests at the temple for an abortion for their wives if they didn't think they were the fathers of a child their wife was carrying. And then the LORD GOD went on to tell Moses to tell the priests of the temple how to preform those abortions, including how to mix the medicine, the "bitter water" to cause those abortions.

It's written in Numbers 5:11–31

 

[samiam5211]

Can you show me, it can be mother occupy democrats for all I care, where they stated that the IRS issued and apology just to avoid a 'PR nightmare'?

I didn’t say they said it. I said it. I am a primary source because I was alive at the time.

 

[Taurus]

Unless you agree with the government, right? For example, vaccine mandates.

State's having rights unto themselves is exactly how the framers framed the constitution. To link it to slavery is just blind. This debate raged between Hamilton and Jefferson for some time, up until Hamilton's death.

Ok, fine. Let's have the MIBs strap everyone down and give 'em the shot. THEN you can use this ridiculous comparison.

 

[Farb]

Agreed, Farb. In addition, your belief that it is a child is a religious belief, which doesn’t belong as part of the government’s code.

And we are on disconnect number 2, probably the main one.

I don't believe that is a child based on religious stance. I believe that because I believe that is what science says.

 

[Farb]

The LORD GOD doesn't think so. He told Moses to tell Israel (the men people) that they could ask priests at the temple for an abortion for their wives if they didn't think they were the fathers of a child their wife was carrying. And then the LORD GOD went on to tell Moses to tell the priests of the temple how to preform those abortions, including how to mix the medicine, the "bitter water" to cause those abortions.

It's written in Numbers 5:11–31

Old Testament is some wild stuff.

 

[Farb]

Ok, fine. Let's have the MIBs strap everyone down and give 'em the shot. THEN you can use this ridiculous comparison.

Like they strap down females for impregnation? Come one, that line of thinking is very limited.

 

[Taurus]

and this is where we reach the impasse. I agree with you. Every person should have the same rights and liberties regardless of where one lives.

To me, the child's life deserves the same protection of personhood as anyone else. You don't think that child is a child yet so to me, that is the main disconnect.

Doesn't matter if they do or not. The woman's right to bodily autonomy trumps the fetus's rights. She has the right to evict an unwanted tenant at any time, for any reason or none.

That's completely ignoring the woman's right to medical privacy. Does some random stranger get to know if you take ED pills? No. How about your herpes? Again, no. It's none of their business and her pregnancy is none of yours.

It also ignores the insane complications of granting a freakin' zygote the same full rights of personhood as a live-born baby. About half of all pregnancies don't end up with a live birth, by natural causes. If every zygote is a person, then all of those have to be investigated under the Equal Protection clause. You think Big Brother is a problem now? Just wait until every female of child-bearing age has to be constantly watched in case she becomes pregnant so the 'person' inside her can be monitored.

 

[Taurus]

Like they strap down females for impregnation? Come one, that line of thinking is very limited.

Your line of thinking is. Glad to see you admit it. Please stop using the vaccine mandate = abortion is murder comparison in the future. It's just dumb.

 

[SamAndreas]

Old Testament is some wild stuff.

It's the written law. I know it forward and backward, have read it in it's original Hebrew. Although I think the King James translation of it is fine.

I've read the Talmud as well, it's the oral law interpretation of the written law. Structurally similar to reading English common law precedent.

From my point of view it's the New Testament where the really wild eyed stuff is. The roots of very mystical movement in Judaism is found there.

 

[SamAndreas]

FDA says abortion pills can be sent by mail | CNN Politics

The US Food and Drug Administration announced Thursday that it is lifting a requirement that patients seeking medication abortion had to pick up the medication in-person, instead allowing pills to be sent by mail.

www.cnn.com

This will please some folks, and upset some other folks.

 

[MT15]

And we are on disconnect number 2, probably the main one.

I don't believe that is a child based on religious stance. I believe that because I believe that is what science says.

Show me the science, not based on religion, that says an embryo or fetus is a fully autonomous person.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

And we are on disconnect number 2, probably the main one.

I don't believe that is a child based on religious stance. I believe that because I believe that is what science says.

And when you stated in this very thread that your opinion is, indeed, a religious one... you were lying?

 

[V Chip]

It is a fair question when discussing this. I have seen, in my life, the IRS become very political. Have you not been paying attention?

Nah, it’s a way to deflect from the point. Planned Parenthood is audited by people who want nothing more than to completely shutter them and yet they cannot find any violations to actually charge them, so they invent the “oh they can shuffle around money to make it seem legit” bullshirt accusation that illogical people eat up like candy.

 

[V Chip]

To me, the child's life deserves the same protection of personhood as anyone else. You don't think that child is a child yet so to me, that is the main disconnect.

But you don’t actually believe that based on what you said earlier in the thread.

If you believe a fetus has the same protection of personhood as a child, then you wouldn’t be against the government taking that person from the mother against her will in order to protect the fetus or child. I mean, you’re obviously not against the government taking a, say, 6 month old baby or 3 year old child from the mother against her will if the mother has stated the intent to hurt the child, correct? You would be in favor of CPS taking a child from the mother in those circumstances, right? But yet you claimed twice earlier in the thread that you would not ever be in favor of taking a fetus from the mother against her will even when the mother has stated the desire to terminate the pregnancy. That’s completely illogical if you truly believe a fetus has the same rights of personhood as a born child.

So either you do think the government should have the right to take a fetus from the woman against her will, or you don’t actually believe a fetus has the same rights of personhood as a born child. There’s no other possibility.