Ruth Bader Ginsburg has passed (Replaced by Amy Coney Barrett)(Now Abortion Discussion) (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Ugh... breaking news I DID NOT want to see.

ETA: Reported on CNN.

 

[Farb]

Way to avoid the point. Almost Neo-like.

It is a fair question when discussing this. I have seen, in my life, the IRS become very political. Have you not been paying attention?

 

[MT15]

You might be referencing a story that was big during Obama’s presidency that has since been debunked. Could you share what you’re thinking of?

 

[Farb]

Direct conflict. The opposite of your opinions. You still won't admit that Plan B isn't abortion, even though the science tells you that your opinion is 100% wrong. You ignore the science on vaccinations vs natural immunity. You ignore the science on trans people vs cis people. And the worst part is that you seem proud to do so.

I have no problem admitting that Plan B is not abortion. I still don't support it but does that make you feel better? You were right CM, I aw wrong.

PLAN B IS NOT ABORTION!!- Farb- 10:17 am 12/16/2021

Now, lets talk about that science of trans people vs (cis) people. How are they the same? How is a trans woman a woman?

 

[Farb]

This sounds a little like the argument for states rights that Southerners used to like. Funny thing is we have seen that Rs don’t really like states rights when “blue” states do something they don’t want them to. I also call BS on your most lawyers statement. The majority of people think Roe is just fine the way it is.

Funny how you go to slavery, but to be expected. When in doubt and all that.
Thinking something is 'fine just the way it is' does not mean it is good and sound case law.
Most people thought Dred Scott was pretty solid standing and then civil war. Most thought Plessy was fine the way it was. It wasn't.

 

[Farb]

You might be referencing a story that was big during Obama’s presidency that has since been debunked. Could you share what you’re thinking of?

Are you saying the IRS denying tax exempt status to conservatives groups during Obama's term didn't happen and with no real penalty?

 

[MT15]

Having a fundamental freedom exist (or not) for fully half the population at the whim of whichever way the legislative wind blows in 50 different states is not a great idea. States rights was a thin veneer for slavery, but that proposal is what this reminds me of, so sue me.

Bodily autonomy is a fundamental human right. You should never have a government telling you what you can or cannot do with your own body. It should be a guarantee no matter where you live in the “land of the free”.

 

[MT15]

Are you saying the IRS denying tax exempt status to conservatives groups during Obama's term didn't happen and with no real penalty?

What I am saying is that the IRS didn’t target conservative groups exclusively, as was widely reported. I don’t remember which site broke the story, but eventually it was investigated and found that there were search terms designed to find groups skirting tax laws on both sides of the political spectrum. Didn’t you wonder why that story just died away and nothing ever came of it? Why there weren’t hearings and further uproar?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I have no problem admitting that Plan B is not abortion. I still don't support it but does that make you feel better? You were right CM, I aw wrong.

PLAN B IS NOT ABORTION!!- Farb- 10:17 am 12/16/2021

Now, lets talk about that science of trans people vs (cis) people. How are they the same? How is a trans woman a woman?

The point I am making is that you state things definitively. You give your own definitions to justify your positions, such as this:

"Does a trans woman have eggs? Can they breast feed and carry a child in a womb? They can't. So, no, they are not a 'real' woman."

You have asserted your own definition of what makes a 'real' woman, and it's problematic on many levels. It ignores the scientific consensus that gender, gender identity, and sex are incredibly complex, it ignores a growing body of evidence that trans people tend to have brain compositions that are closer to their identity than the sex they were assigned at birth, and it damn sure ignores women that aren't fertile for any number of reasons.

You've decided on the definition that fits your opinion instead of letting your opinion be informed by reality. The scientific community damn sure doesn't say what you do regarding trans people, which means your opinion is in conflict with reality.

 

[samiam5211]

Are you saying the IRS denying tax exempt status to conservatives groups during Obama's term didn't happen and with no real penalty?

It didn't happen.

I hope one day you will wake up.

 

[Farb]

Having a fundamental freedom exist (or not) for fully half the population at the whim of whichever way the legislative wind blows in 50 different states is not a great idea. States rights was a thin veneer for slavery, but that proposal is what this reminds me of, so sue me.

Bodily autonomy is a fundamental human right. You should never have a government telling you what you can or cannot do with your own body. It should be a guarantee no matter where you live in the “land of the free”.

Unless you agree with the government, right? For example, vaccine mandates.

State's having rights unto themselves is exactly how the framers framed the constitution. To link it to slavery is just blind. This debate raged between Hamilton and Jefferson for some time, up until Hamilton's death.

 

[Farb]

It didn't happen.

I hope one day you will wake up.

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/27/5603...or-aggressive-scrutiny-of-conservative-groups

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/irs-apologizes-targeting-conservative-groups-flna1C9873823

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Internal Revenue Service is apologizing for inappropriately flagging conservative political groups for additional reviews during the 2012 election to see if they were violating their tax-exempt status.


Lois Lerner, who heads the IRS unit that oversees tax-exempt groups, said organizations that included the words "tea party" or "patriot" in their applications for tax-exempt status were singled out for additional reviews.

If it didn't happen, why is NPR, AP (both heavily Left) and Lerner apologize?

 

[MT15]

Unless you agree with the government, right? For example, vaccine mandates.

State's having rights unto themselves is exactly how the framers framed the constitution. To link it to slavery is just blind. This debate raged between Hamilton and Jefferson for some time, up until Hamilton's death.

There really aren’t any vaccine mandates, in that everyone is given a choice (see how that works?) for weekly testing.

Once again, you’re just trying to reframe the discussion. Slave holding states very famously wanted to assert “states rights” to avoid having to deal with the fact that black people are actually human beings with all the rights and privileges of other humans. This “let the states decide” reminds me of that particular use of that argument to avoid giving women their rights to bodily autonomy.

 

[MT15]

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/27/5603...or-aggressive-scrutiny-of-conservative-groups

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/irs-apologizes-targeting-conservative-groups-flna1C9873823

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Internal Revenue Service is apologizing for inappropriately flagging conservative political groups for additional reviews during the 2012 election to see if they were violating their tax-exempt status.


Lois Lerner, who heads the IRS unit that oversees tax-exempt groups, said organizations that included the words "tea party" or "patriot" in their applications for tax-exempt status were singled out for additional reviews.

If it didn't happen, why is NPR, AP (both heavily Left) and Lerner apologize?

They apologized to conservative groups because they were the focus of the original articles and were the only ones griping about it at the time. I also suspect, and this is mere speculation, that they found far more conservative groups skirting the tax code than lefty ones.

The focus of the IRS was on all politically activist groups. They used terms from both sides.

 

[samiam5211]

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/27/5603...or-aggressive-scrutiny-of-conservative-groups

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/irs-apologizes-targeting-conservative-groups-flna1C9873823

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Internal Revenue Service is apologizing for inappropriately flagging conservative political groups for additional reviews during the 2012 election to see if they were violating their tax-exempt status.


Lois Lerner, who heads the IRS unit that oversees tax-exempt groups, said organizations that included the words "tea party" or "patriot" in their applications for tax-exempt status were singled out for additional reviews.

If it didn't happen, why is NPR, AP (both heavily Left) and Lerner apologize?

They apologized because it had become a PR nightmare.

There had been about 10x as many new conservative groups started in the couple of years before than liberal ones. So the statistics looked bad, but it wasn’t because they were specifically targeting conservatives.

They decided to apologize and move on, because explaining it wouldn’t convince any of the people who had been brainwashed by foxnews.

If it was real, why didn’t the Republicans ensure justice was served once they got power?

 

[Farb]

There really aren’t any vaccine mandates, in that everyone is given a choice (see how that works?) for weekly testing.

Once again, you’re just trying to reframe the discussion. Slave holding states very famously wanted to assert “states rights” to avoid having to deal with the fact that black people are actually human beings with all the rights and privileges of other humans. This “let the states decide” reminds me of that particular use of that argument to avoid giving women their rights to bodily autonomy.

Just so we are clear, we are comparing slavery to abortion?

Do you think everyone in every state should have the same laws and taxes?

 

[Farb]

They apologized because it had become a PR nightmare.

There had been about 10x as many new conservative groups started in the couple of years before than liberal ones. So the statistics looked bad, but it wasn’t because they were specifically targeting conservatives.

They decided to apologize and move on, because explaining it wouldn’t convince any of the people who had been brainwashed by foxnews.

If it was real, why didn’t the Republicans ensure justice was served once they got power?

So the IRS lied the American people?

Are you sure I am the one asleep on this one?

 

[samiam5211]

Are you sure I am the one asleep on this one?

Yes.

 

[SamAndreas]

A person interested in Lois Lerner ought to look at this:

Donor Lookup

www.opensecrets.org

She got that job she had during the Bush years. The same as the Fast and Furious people who also created quite a flap for Obama to deal with. Which begs the question who did they actually work for?