Ruth Bader Ginsburg has passed (Replaced by Amy Coney Barrett)(Now Abortion Discussion) (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Ugh... breaking news I DID NOT want to see.

ETA: Reported on CNN.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

If abortion is murder, then shouldn't a miscarrage be negligent homicide? Shoudn't the mother be held responsible not being able to keep her child alive during pregnancy, same as after the child is bord? If she had one drink, if she took any medication or ate/drank food that she had a reaction to, If she got into an at fault accident while pregnant, etc.. the list could go on and on. I bet the anti-abortion groups would say NO real quick to that... But if life starts at conception, then the mother should be 100% liable from then on...

 

[cuddlemonkey]

We have been down this road. You ask for me to prove a scientific debate as if that means my position is untenable all the while, you never seem to answer my questions.

I will ask again, when do you think 'life' begins?

Why does my opinion matter to your position? You're the one failing to support it.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

What about my opinion is not true?

I would direct you to Brandon's post, #1018.

 

[SFIDC3]

Do you have a point or are you just using this as a point 'own the religious'?

But, yes, reconciliation is a sacrament in my church, although I would hardly call it a 'get out of jail free card'.

Oh, but I would not and have not gotten clipped as you are correct, it is against my faith, but that doesn't mean anyone else can't. Like I said, sadly, I am not emperor yet.

Sadly you worship a fairy tale...an Emperor like you would set us right back to the Dark Ages....hope you get out of that deep rabbit hole you are in one day...

 

[brandon]

Oh, but I would not and have not gotten clipped as you are correct, it is against my faith, but that doesn't mean anyone else can't. Like I said, sadly, I am not emperor yet.

So you believe abortion kills the unborn and it should be legislated against, but you also believe vasectomies kill the unborn but should not be legislated against?

Or are you saying you would definitely outlaw vasectomies if you were emperor?

 

[Farb]

If abortion is murder, then shouldn't a miscarrage be negligent homicide? Shoudn't the mother be held responsible not being able to keep her child alive during pregnancy, same as after the child is bord? If she had one drink, if she took any medication or ate/drank food that she had a reaction to, If she got into an at fault accident while pregnant, etc.. the list could go on and on. I bet the anti-abortion groups would say NO real quick to that... But if life starts at conception, then the mother should be 100% liable from then on...

Zero days.....
Are there not laws about holding a mother responsible if she has illegal drugs in her system during child birth, I might be wrong but I think there is.

 

[V Chip]

The argument of "when does life begin?" isn't very relevant. Life begins with a fertilized egg.

The real point in this argument is more "when does personhood begin?" Very few would argue it begins at conception, but where in the development of a fetus does it become an actual person? There's various points where people have made philosophical arguments -- conception, implantation, gastrulation, when the EEG begins, viability, natural viability, birth. However very few of those have ever been made legal in any fashion outside of say fetal murder/homicide laws -- for instance, there are no laws that state a pregnant mother can claim a fetus on their taxes, or in a census, or death certificates aren't always required for miscarriages, or pregnancies aren't counted in population counts, etc. Most legal definitions either state or infer birth as the beginning of personhood.

 

[Farb]

Why does my opinion matter to your position? You're the one failing to support it.

Then why are we arguing? You are not even brave enough to put your opinion out there to discuss?
If I am wrong then I assume you think you are correct. What are you correct about because you are too chicken poop to actually articulate a stance on when you think life begins and if and when you think abortion be illegal, if at all.

Let me guess, another question with no actual stance. Yawn. So clever.

 

[Farb]

I would direct you to Brandon's post, #1018.

I didn't ask him, it is you and I having this discussion. He is not the one asking one line questions for 2 days.

When do you think abortion, if at all, should be illegal?

 

[Farb]

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-california-sanctuary-625a118108bcda253196697c83548d5b

Leave it to the states.

 

[J-DONK]

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-california-sanctuary-625a118108bcda253196697c83548d5b

Leave it to the states.

Why do you hate poor people Farb?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Then why are we arguing? You are not even brave enough to put your opinion out there to discuss?
If I am wrong then I assume you think you are correct. What are you correct about because you are too chicken poop to actually articulate a stance on when you think life begins and if and when you think abortion be illegal, if at all.

Let me guess, another question with no actual stance. Yawn. So clever.

Almost as clever as you refusing to answer, then acting all put out that I won't answer your questions that were asked to avoid mine.

If you want me to answer, I will. I just prefer to do it as part of a conversation and not because you lack the ability to support your own positions and feel the need to deflect.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I didn't ask him, it is you and I having this discussion. He is not the one asking one line questions for 2 days.

When do you think abortion, if at all, should be illegal?

I call shenanigans. Brandon responded to you with an answer before I did. I saw no need to pile on since he already demonstrated that you were wrong. Now you're shifting the goalposts.

You said Plan B was abortion. Brandon pointed out that you are factually incorrect. Which do you believe, your opinion or the facts that render your opinion baseless?

 

[coldseat]

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-california-sanctuary-625a118108bcda253196697c83548d5b

Leave it to the states.

This position makes no sense. States are no more allowed to translate the religious beliefs of the ruling party into laws and impose it on their citizens any more than the federal government is. Likewise, if it is the consensus view of the governed across this country that a fetus in the womb of a mother is deserving of legal protection, it makes no sense that abortion would be illegal in one state and not in another.

But it's always been a Republican/Southern strategy that whenever they want to deny their citizens civil liberty legal protections and can't convince the majority of the governed to go along with them, they always retreat to the position states rights. So it's not a surprising argument.

 

[MT15]

No one is forcing anyone. Do you think your daughter would prefer to spend 3 days or kill her child? Hard question but this is a tough subject.

If you don't want to go through childbirth or support a child for 18years, then don't do the nasty. If you do the nasty and you get pregnant then that is what happens. This has been true ever since we were in caves. Bad decisions have consequences, that is life. I am also willing to bet that anyone that has a child and raises, no matter how tought it was, sure is glad they didn't kill their kid later in life.

So, let me get this straight. If my daughter or the lady on Twitter had died, that’s just what they get for having sex with their husbands? Do I have that right?

 

[MT15]

And Farb wonders why I think he doesn’t consider women as real people, or at least he doesn’t think they are equal to men in their personhood. He thinks they should all be held hostage to his extreme views.

 

[zztop]

If abortion is murder, then shouldn't a miscarrage be negligent homicide? Shoudn't the mother be held responsible not being able to keep her child alive during pregnancy, same as after the child is bord? If she had one drink, if she took any medication or ate/drank food that she had a reaction to, If she got into an at fault accident while pregnant, etc.. the list could go on and on. I bet the anti-abortion groups would say NO real quick to that... But if life starts at conception, then the mother should be 100% liable from then on...

all I can think of is that joke highlighting the absurdity of some views: about how if abortion is murder then blowjobs are cannibalism

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Zero days.....
Are there not laws about holding a mother responsible if she has illegal drugs in her system during child birth, I might be wrong but I think there is.

I am not talking about at child birth. I am talking about from day 1 if you belive life starts at conception. I am talking about if a woman has a miscarriage at ANY point after conception. If Abortion is murder, why wouldn't you consider a miscarraige negligent homocide?
I would like an explination.