Capitalism (1 Viewer)

[Huntn]

Capitalism- good or bad?

This is not my answer that it is bad per se, but the following is what triggered this thread. When I think of a country, I think of it’s citizens as being members of Team USA, Team Canada, or Team UK, etc, and with companies, corporations, I see issues where the emphasis is on profits, not my team. For corporations, the team is not my country, but my small group of capital collectors, and one thing that irritates me constantly is when I call a company, say a U.S. based insurance company and I end up talking to someone in India, or the Philippines. Hey profits up, but citizens (team members) are disenfranchised, the income levels of the home country is undermined, millions of jobs exported to cheap labor locations. I’ve witnessed this in manufacturing for at least the last 30-40 years. When it comes to profits there is no National loyalty. As I said, the team is the corporation, and sometimes, it’s not even the people working locally, some of those like assembly line workers are viewed as drains on the bottom line. Thoughts?

 

[efil4]

i think you are missing a large factor- shareholders.

If you are referring to "publicly traded companies" ( which most are in a large industry such as finance, insurance, manufacturing etc ) they are really beholden to their shareholders and maximizing profits to maximize returns for those shareholders.

So its not "capitalism in a vacuum" per se- the shareholder factor is a major one that they MUST take into consideration when making decisions on how, what, where etc.


per your example, if that Insurance Co is publicly traded, they made the decision to "out source" basic customer services because they found it to be much less expensive to do so, than to have someone state-side, collecting salary that has to commensurate with cost of living ( which is always rising ) and in the end, generates larger profit that can be distributed to shareholders in the form of dividends. Once that cycle starts showing returns, its never gonna stop.

 

[Huntn]

i think you are missing a large factor- shareholders.

If you are referring to "publicly traded companies" ( which most are in a large industry such as finance, insurance, manufacturing etc ) they are really beholden to their shareholders and maximizing profits to maximize returns for those shareholders.

So its not "capitalism in a vacuum" per se- the shareholder factor is a major one that they MUST take into consideration when making decisions on how, what, where etc.


per your example, if that Insurance Co is publicly traded, they made the decision to "out source" basic customer services because they found it to be much less expensive to do so, than to have someone state-side, collecting salary that has to commensurate with cost of living ( which is always rising ) and in the end, generates larger profit that can be distributed to shareholders in the form of dividends. Once that cycle starts showing returns, it’s never gonna stop.

You are right that I omitted that aspect of the equation from my discussion. So would you categorize Capitalism in its current state as a net positive or negative for any country/society currently in existence? How about when Capitalism power influencers infiltrate government? There are wealth generating entities in charge that focus primarily on profits, with little or no thought applied to the health of markets or society, there is an assumption that somehow the market will stay healthy, even when business practises are directly responsible for weakening markets.

For example look at the USA, millions of manufacturing jobs exported, then look at the domestic market. My impression is that there are larger segments of society that are struggling than ever before along with evidence that being locked into our current economies prevents us as a species from doing what needs to be done to solve our environmental problems, eliminating carbon/fossil fuels as energy sources. The lament becomes “what about our profits”?

Honestly, I think there is better than a 50/50 chance we are headed towards Earth based calamity.

 

[Dragon]

I think you are missing another perspective - at least in this age of information!

Companies no longer only have to worry about the cost of production but also about their public image. Having a "good public image" increases sales and revenue.
So although there maybe money saved by paying lower salaries, fewer benefits or outsourcing production to other and cheaper countries, those benefits would be lost if people wont buy your product or support your business.

Capitalism also applies to consumers. They will take their business to the company that provides the most benefit in their oppinion

 

[CoolBrees]

Great topic for discussion.

Capitalism isn't a form of government, it is simply a form of commerce.

I will begin by stating here what I have said on here many times - I am somewhere left of Bernie. However, my socialistic ideals aren't popular, so I have to accept that I am not going to get what I want. Such is life in society.

Capitalism, and its government counterpart Democracy, allow for free will and open opportunity. In my opinion, that is the best of the realistic options within a society of humans.

Inherently flawed, and imperfect to its core, Capitalism stands alone as the only system intrinsically created to give opportunity.

So Capitalism isn't good or bad. It is an idea. The fatality flawed humans that operate inside of the system are what determine the outcome, not the system.

 

[Huntn]

I think you are missing another perspective - at least in this age of information!

Companies no longer only have to worry about the cost of production but also about their public image. Having a "good public image" increases sales and revenue.
So although there maybe money saved by paying lower salaries, fewer benefits or outsourcing production to other and cheaper countries, those benefits would be lost if people wont buy your product or support your business.

Capitalism also applies to consumers. They will take their business to the company that provides the most benefit in their oppinion

That has not hindered the wholesale export of millions of manufacturing Jobs. Back in the 50’s the US was a treasure trove of jobs and a booming Middle Class developed because of it. That Middle Class has mostly evaporated. The other half of this is how does society respond to those disenfranchised- every person for themselves. Sorry to inject some politics, but many of the kids and grandkids of those disenfranchised 50s workers are likely Trump MAGA types longing for the good ole “white days”.

One of my points is that Corporations mostly look to profits and often resist things that are deemed good for society because it hurts their profits. One good example would be Universal Health care paid for with taxes.

 

[Huntn]

Great topic for discussion.

Capitalism isn't a form of government, it is simply a form of commerce.

I will begin by stating here what I have said on here many times - I am somewhere left of Bernie. However, my socialistic ideals aren't popular, so I have to accept that I am not going to get what I want. Such is life in society.

Capitalism, and its government counterpart Democracy, allow for free will and open opportunity. In my opinion, that is the best of the realistic options within a society of humans.

Inherently flawed, and imperfect to its core, Capitalism stands alone as the only system intrinsically created to give opportunity.

So Capitalism isn't good or bad. It is an idea. The fatality flawed humans that operate inside of the system are what determine the outcome, not the system.

And Capitalism in the hands of humans we frequently see greed, excessive greed based on ME>WE. This is pervasive, not enough concern about US. And I mention it frequently, but we as a species will allow the planet to burn trying to hold onto our individual wealth.

 

[samiam5211]

Capitalism isn't really good or bad, it just is.

It does some things well, like produce things that we will want to buy, whether or not they are good for us is incidental.

it is terrible at distribution of wealth. Without regulation it eventually leads to a few people having most of the capital.

 

[Huntn]

Capitalism isn't really good or bad, it just is.

It does some things well, like produce things that we will want to buy, whether or not they are good for us is incidental.

it is terrible at distribution of wealth. Without regulation it eventually leads to a few people having most of the capital.

So Capitalism is only as good or bad as the people who implement it. I agree with this. I’ve always said that the only way Capitalism works is when it is subject to significant regulation by a government that is focused on social stability, who is concerned about the entire “team” of citizens who make up the country, and who expressly keeps the wealth distributed across society in an appropriate manner, which is subject to interpretation.

 

[Huntn]

Picked up from Mastodon:

 

[UriUT]

Picked up from Mastodon:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2024/05/07/1249203297/neoliberal-economics-the-road-to-freedom-or-authoritarianism

You will find that article interesting.