All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (20 Viewers)

Beach Friends said:

@Lapaz

I don't like setting a precedent toward needing papers to travel within the Unites States. I know, I know - that sounds hyperbolic. It could never happen here, right?

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I think that we have gotten over the whole border thing/travel ban/I.C.E. arrests/kids in cages by now

MT15 said:

I thought I read where the reason to ban travel to a vacation home had more to do with people traveling from a city with plenty of medical resources to a rural area with little to no medical resources. I think the fear was that people who didn’t know they were already infected would travel to the rural area and then become ill where there was no way to take care of them. I don’t think Michigan was the only state to wrestle with that scenario.

How you know someone isn’t really concerned with anything except partisanship is when they complain about certain states as engaging in overreach, but do not acknowledge that states with both R and D governors have pretty much responded in like ways, according to their level of disease.

With a couple of exceptions, the state response has been similar.

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As someone working in healthcare in Louisiana, I can say this is pretty much solid rationale. Just looking at the data we receive from the Dept. of Health lately, our hotspots off late have been in our rural communities with little access to healthcare. We have several clinics in these areas on the north shore and have pretty much run out of the testing kits we were able to get because of the numbers coming Doreen with symptoms.

This was also evident as they last parishes in the state who reported cases were rural parishes. Once that happened it started going downhill in those areas.

I don't think there is any good rationale for restricting people from traveling - whether to a property they own or not.

I, for example, own a couple of nurseries and a farm that I have to check on. There is no way I should risk a lot of money simply because a Governor thinks I am too stupid to fill up my vehicle with fuel safely.

Likewise, I can think of quite a few slid reasons that a person might need to travel to a property that is not their homestead.

Oddly, I doubt such a Governor has such fear when the idea is to travel to have an abortion. And I would agree with such a Governor on that.

No good rationale in asking people to refrain from traveling temporarily during a pandemic? That’s your thought? Two weeks during the height of the pandemic, everyone in every state was asked by the federal government to eliminate unnecessary travel, but you don’t think there was any good reason for that? I must not be understanding your point, because the whole purpose of the lockdown is to prevent people from moving around, as that is how the virus is spread.

As for people starting to feel sick and having time to travel back to the city, people who are actively shedding the virus should not be out and about for any reason. This stuff is much more contagious than the flu. Plus there are many people who, by the time they realize they are sick are in no condition to drive anywhere.

JimEverett said:

I don't think there is any good rationale for restricting people from traveling - whether to a property they own or not.

I, for example, own a couple of nurseries and a farm that I have to check on. There is no way I should risk a lot of money simply because a Governor thinks I am too stupid to fill up my vehicle with fuel safely.

Likewise, I can think of quite a few slid reasons that a person might need to travel to a property that is not their homestead.

Oddly, I doubt such a Governor has such fear when the idea is to travel to have an abortion. And I would agree with such a Governor on that.

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It depends on the situation and whether it puts you in close proximity to people, right? If you're on a farm, and maintaining distancing, there's probably no reason to wear masks.

If people need to travel, then do it. All I'm saying is that if you don't "need" to travel, why unnecessarily expose others to risk? I haven't visited my parents in two months, and it's not because I'm worried they'll make ME sick. If people need to go out for whatever reason, then do it. But wear masks depending on the situation. Observe social distancing guidelines. Taking precautions isn't about protecting you but others. And if you can't be bothered to take precautions, then don't go out. You don't have the right to infect me because you can't be bothered to think of others. It's that simple.

MT15 said:

No good rationale in asking people to refrain from traveling temporarily during a pandemic? That’s your thought? Two weeks during the height of the pandemic, everyone in every state was asked by the federal government to eliminate unnecessary travel, but you don’t think there was any good reason for that? I must not be understanding your point, because the whole purpose of the lockdown is to prevent people from moving around, as that is how the virus is spread.

As for people starting to feel sick and having time to travel back to the city, people who are actively shedding the virus should not be out and about for any reason. This stuff is much more contagious than the flu. Plus there are many people who, by the time they realize they are sick are in no condition to drive anywhere.

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The prohibition being discussed is the Michigan prohibition of travel to properties people own, or at least I thought that was what was being discussed. I do not think there is any good rationale for that.

I love how this has been completely side tracked.

Rather than talk about new developments where the spread is going now and the actual things that are being done we do this. Fight about your rights to go to waffle house?

how the non believers that are gonna keep the infections growing.

Here is a prime example Iowa. They never shut down and all the meat processing plant are blowing up.

A tiny town Perry of less than 8k has a Tyson plant that just had 730 positive cases of workers. Now that is not the related to workers or people in contact with workers just employees.

So yes they never shut down now a town of 8k has probably well more than ten percent positive and one hospital with this are you ready 25 beds!

The flyover states are gonna pay a huge price in human life because of republican leadership.

Let's lay out what the order covers.

Michigan

• Gov. Gretchen Whitmer issued an extension of the statewide stay-at-home order on April 9, which introduced stricter restrictions for essential businesses. The order extended the prohibition on "all public and private gatherings among persons outside a single household" and encouraged people to limit the number of household members running errands.
• On April 24, Whitmer extended the order through May 15 but relaxed certain restrictions. Nonessential retailers can reopen for curbside pickup and delivery. Big-box stores are no longer required to close off certain areas, such as garden centers. Landscapers, lawn service companies, plant nurseries and bike repair shops can resume socially-distant operations.
• The new order permits certain outdoor activities such as golfing and motorized boating, provided social distancing is practiced. State parks remain open. Individuals can travel between their residences, though it is "strongly discouraged."
• People are now required to wear non-medical grade face coverings in enclosed public spaces. Employers must provide masks to their in-person workers.
• An executive order extends the closure of "places of accommodation" including bars, theaters, casinos and dine-in restaurants until May 28. Businesses are encouraged to continue food and beverage sales through delivery, walk-up, drive-through and window service.
• Whitmer issued a rule banning employers from firing or otherwise retaliating against an employee "for staying home from work if they or one of their close contacts tests positive for COVID-19 or has symptoms of the disease."
• Whitmer signed an executive order extending the deadline to complete the canvass from the March 10 presidential primary by a month to April 24.
• All K-12 public, private and boarding school buildings were ordered closed through the end of the school year, with most in-person classes replaced with remote learning.
• Whitmer issued an executive order temporarily suspending eviction allowing residents to remain in their homes even if they are unable to pay their rent or mortgage. She also expanded eligibility for unemployment benefits.
• Whitmer has temporarily suspended requirements regarding the licensing and regulation of emergency medical services.
• The TCF Regional Care Center, Michigan's first alternate care facility, began accepting patients on April 10.
• Whitmer signed an executive order temporarily extending valid driver's licenses, state identification cards and commercial vehicle registrations that would otherwise expire during the state of emergency.
• Whitmer also ordered the Michigan Liquor Control Commission to initiate a spirits buy-back program to help bars and restaurants with on-premise liquor licenses.
• An April 15 executive order establishes specific procedures in long-term care facilities to protect the health and safety of workers and residents.
• The governors of Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio and Wisconsin announced on April 16 that they will work in close coordination to safely reopen Midwestern states.
• The state Department of Health and Human Services partnered with meditation company Headspace to launch "Stay Home, Stay MIndful," a free website with mental health resources like guided meditations and at-home exercises for Michiganders.
• On April 17, Whitmer signed executive orders extending the suspension of evictions and enhancing restrictions on price gouging through May 15.
• Through an April 20 executive order, Whitmer created the Michigan Coronavirus Task Force on Racial Disparities. The advisory body will conduct research into the causes of racial disparities in the impact of COVID-19 and make recommendations to address them.
• An executive order allowing pharmacists to dispense 60-day refills of maintenance prescriptions has been extended through May 19.
• An April 22 executive order extends temporary expansions in unemployment eligibility.
• Whitmer also ordered the extension of all deadlines for case initiation in civil and probate matters for the duration of the emergency.
• Whitmer and the Michigan Department of Insurance and Financial Services launched the MiMortgage Relief Partnership on April 23. More than 200 state financial institutions have signed onto the initiative, which provides affected borrowers with a 90-day grace period for mortgage payments. It also temporarily provides relief from mortgage-related late fees and delays new foreclosures.
• An April 26 executive order enacts safety measures for staff and customers at food establishments and pharmacies. It also suspends certain licensing and registration deadlines for the food service industry. These measures have been extended until May 29.
• Whitmer signed an order extending the validity of personal protection orders that would otherwise expire during the pandemic through July 21.
• An April 26 executive order expands protections for vulnerable populations in the state's jails, local lockups and juvenile detention centers during the pandemic, replacing an earlier order.
• Michigan has devoted $130 million in federal and state funding to a new "Child Care Relief Fund," which will provide non-competitive grants to child care providers.
• An April 29 executive order affirms the right to receive medical care without discrimination and requires health care facilities to develop protocols that ensure non-discrimination in the event of a hospital surge.
• Whitmer announced the "Futures for Frontliners" program, to provide tuition-free post-secondary education opportunities for essential workers.
• After the Michigan Legislature refused to renew the state's emergency and disaster declarations past their May 1 expiration, Whitmer issued executive orders extending them through May 28.
• Certain types of lower-risk work, like construction, real-estate activities and jobs primarily performed outdoors, are allowed to resume beginning May 7.
• The State Secretary of State mailed absentee applications to registered voters in the 33 counties holding elections on May 5. A limited number of polling places were open for socially-distant in-person voting.

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Here is the actual Executive Order. Section 7 has the general exemptions.


Then these were the heightened restrictions.








12B and C are really the big changes from the original EO.

@JimEverett I think based on your scenario, your properties are not "residences" and you could probably claim they are your businesses and you, being the owner, are critical infrastructure. You'd likely not be restricted. I also think in your forced interjection about Abortion, it may or may not be allowed, based on what limits on "health and safety" there are. 7, a, (5).

The mayor of New Orleans has gone full 1984.

Intensesaint said:

The mayor of New Orleans has gone full 1984.

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No you seem to miss the fact that it would be used for letting you know if you were in contact with an infected person.

If you have been paying attention that is what about Korea did except they did all the tracing thru cell phones.

I would certainly like to know if someone that prepared my dinner is infected or if my barber is infected. But that is just me I don't want my parents dead.

Good thing you are in Florida because that is like the wild west.

The moose said:

No you seem to miss the fact that it would be used for letting you know if you were in contact with an infected person.

If you have been paying attention that is what about Korea did except they did all the tracing thru cell phones.

I would certainly like to know if someone that prepared my dinner is infected or if my barber is infected. But that is just me I don't want my parents dead.

Good thing you are in Florida because that is like the wild west.

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My county is the most densely populated county in the state(Pinellas) as well and we are doing very well with our numbers, you can be sacred and hide in your home. I am done with the fear mongering and misinformation that is going on.

Also, more and more doctors and nurses are popping up around the country, telling their stories about how this is being overblown by the media and how they are being pressured to label deaths as caused by COVID-19.

You have really lost it if you are ok with letting a business log your name or any information(at the behest of the government), just for going in their store.

MT15 said:

No good rationale in asking people to refrain from traveling temporarily during a pandemic? That’s your thought? Two weeks during the height of the pandemic, everyone in every state was asked by the federal government to eliminate unnecessary travel, but you don’t think there was any good reason for that? I must not be understanding your point, because the whole purpose of the lockdown is to prevent people from moving around, as that is how the virus is spread.

As for people starting to feel sick and having time to travel back to the city, people who are actively shedding the virus should not be out and about for any reason. This stuff is much more contagious than the flu. Plus there are many people who, by the time they realize they are sick are in no condition to drive anywhere.

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How does it hurt anyone if I travel

Intensesaint said:

The mayor of New Orleans has gone full 1984.

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I wonder if she is going to figure out what the citizens are telling her when "Kevin Bacon" keeps showing up on her lists.

Beach Friends said:

How does it hurt anyone if I travel

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You might touch a gas pump, oh the horror of it all.

not2rich said:

It depends on the situation and whether it puts you in close proximity to people, right? If you're on a farm, and maintaining distancing, there's probably no reason to wear masks.

If people need to travel, then do it. All I'm saying is that if you don't "need" to travel, why unnecessarily expose others to risk? I haven't visited my parents in two months, and it's not because I'm worried they'll make ME sick. If people need to go out for whatever reason, then do it. But wear masks depending on the situation. Observe social distancing guidelines. Taking precautions isn't about protecting you but others. And if you can't be bothered to take precautions, then don't go out. You don't have the right to infect me because you can't be bothered to think of others. It's that simple.

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You aren’t at risk from what other people do if you isolate yourself.

We really are just screwed. I'm just at a loss here -- instead of being mad at not having a plan and infrastructure in place to safely reopen 3 months after we knew that this was going to be bad -- yes, let's be mad at the numbers that don't tell us what we want to hear, let's be mad at trying to delay the spread of the disease while we get that plan and infrastructure at place. It's pure selfishness. "I don't think I'm going to die, so let the weak and vulnerable fend for themselves, as long as I get mine."

UncleTrvlingJim said:

We really are just screwed. I'm just at a loss here -- instead of being mad at not having a plan and infrastructure in place to safely reopen 3 months after we knew that this was going to be bad -- yes, let's be mad at the numbers that don't tell us what we want to hear, let's be mad at trying to delay the spread of the disease while we get that plan and infrastructure at place. It's poor selfishness. "I don't think I'm going to die, so let the weak and vulnerable fend for themselves, as long as I get mine."

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Yep.

Many, many more will die in this country as a result of this brazenly careless and juvenile attitude. It's that simple.

Intensesaint said:

My county is the most densely populated county in the state(Pinellas) as well and we are doing very well with our numbers, you can be sacred and hide in your home. I am done with the fear mongering and misinformation that is going on.

Also, more and more doctors and nurses are popping up around the country, telling their stories about how this is being overblown by the media and how they are being pressured to label deaths as caused by COVID-19.

You have really lost it if you are ok with letting a business log your name or any information(at the behest of the government), just for going in their store.

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Ok let's get something straight. You are giving that info for free to multiple people anyway and they sell it for profit not about saving a life. So what is the big deal?

You think visa or your bank don't know what you do where you go and sell it? They sure know about the waffle house stops, the stop at the Walmart, and anywhere else you buy.

Do you think your phone provider doesn't know what you are doing and sell it?

I would be more tin foil hat about them so they can make money rather than about maybe helping save someone else's mother.

I would also look into just how many tests are being given in your area.

I for one think that the numbers in Florida can't be right just based on age of state and the amount of travelers you get. When a pork plant with fifteen hundred employees in middle nowhere Iowa has as many positive tested as your county of what about a million people. The math don't work.

UncleTrvlingJim said:

We really are just screwed. I'm just at a loss here -- instead of being mad at not having a plan and infrastructure in place to safely reopen 3 months after we knew that this was going to be bad -- yes, let's be mad at the numbers that don't tell us what we want to hear, let's be mad at trying to delay the spread of the disease while we get that plan and infrastructure at place. It's pure selfishness. "I don't think I'm going to die, so let the weak and vulnerable fend for themselves, as long as I get mine."

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I know, right? The mitigation efforts didn't buy us time to put an effective plan in place. Instead, it gave us another divisive culture war.