All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (2 Viewers)

FullMonte said:

Forget all of that....it's not the point. I don't care if he was 1000% certain he didn't have the virus and he has proven he is immune.

--The CDC recommends people wear cloth masks in public
--The Mayo Clinic has a policy that everyone wear a mask
--The Mayo Clinic has stated publicly that they told Pence of that policy
--Pence could see that everyone (including his own staff) was wearing masks.

As a "leader," he should model the behavior that he expects. He should wear a mask in public as an example to the rest of the US. Being the head of the Coronavirus Task Force and saying "I don't care what anyone says about masks, I'm not wearing one," is a horrible look

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Perhaps you missed that I was responding to a post (which I quoted) wherein a poster decided to ignore the obvious reasons Pence should've had a mask on in order to excuse his bad behavior through a line of poorly reasoned science straight from the Pence press office? I was responding to the contents of that specific post, not making a general statement on my feelings about whether Pence should or should not have been masked nor hierarchically ranking the reasons he should have been masked from most blatantly obvious to most technically pedantic...

If you would like to know my personal feelings on the matter, which apparently you would, I think that if the forking Mayo Clinic has a public health policy in place during the middle of a global pandemic, then you should abide by said policy without question when you decide to visit the forking Mayo Clinic during the middle of a global pandemic. If you're too macho for that, then you can have your photo op outside on the sidewalk. There shouldn't be much else that needs to be said on the matter, but, alas, here we are.

Heathen said:

Armed Michigan right wing protestors stormed the state capital today to try mob tactics against Gov. Whitmer.

Ill repeat that...angry armed protestors carrying rifles and body armor occupied a state building today.

They could be terrorists for all anyone knows. But you know why they're 'patriots' instead.

It's lawful, apparently. Smart? That's another story.

Hundreds of protesters, some carrying guns in the state Capitol, demonstrate against Michigan's emergency measures

Lawmakers declined to extend the state's emergency declaration and voted to bring a lawsuit to challenge Gov. Gretchen Whitmer's authority. Whitmer then issued new emergency orders.

www.nbcnews.com

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They are idiots. If I could I would ask them if their purpose was to get gun legislation passed, because that's how you do it.

Beach Friends said:

They are idiots. If I could I would ask them if their purpose was to get gun legislation passed, because that's how you do it.

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I'm just surprised the state lets folks do that and cops weren't hauling people off. I guess they were outnumbered. Maybe a time to think about future preparedness.

Beach Friends said:

I wonder what analysis you went through to conclude that the United States of America was dead last in the entire world in handling this virus. Setting aside the numbers for a moment, did you consider the preservation or infringement on human liberty?

It may be easy to overlook that, but it's not exactly a small issue. Take a look at the following video, and although it is not the most egregious example you will see in the clip- pay particular attention to the first incident where Chinese officials pay a visit to a home to "moderate" what the residents said on social media:



Before you shrug off the infringement of civil liberties as only being tangential to how a nation has "handled" the pandemic, remember that doctors in Wuhan tried to warn early on that the virus was spread between humans and those doctors were arrested for spreading "misinformation" and causing a civil disturbance. Yeah, when you look at it in that light, freedom of speech is kind of a big deal.

I know, you probably think that sort of thing can't happen here - but it can.

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First, I didn't say we are the worst. I said no country has done worse. There are still about 10 countries with significant populations which still have a higher per capita case load than the U.S., but most of them have either gotten the virus under control or have flattened the curve. Those countries are Germany, France, Spain, Italy, UK, Switzerland, Iceland, Belgium, Luxembourg and Ireland. The only one that is doing nearly as bad as the U.S. is the UK, but they're doing better too, even though their prime minister is almost as bad as Trump. Others may catch up, like Sweden, since they are letting it spread, so they may become worse, but right now they're about even with the U.S. It will be hard to do worse than us. Here is a comparison of each of the countries with worse per capita. I compared their worst new case load day to their new case loads for the last 2 days combined, and I listed them below roughly in order of worst to best:
Highest Day vs Last 2 Days:
U.S: 38958 vs 28429+30829 =~59,000
UK: 8681 vs 4076 + 6032 =~ 10100
Spain: 8271 vs 4700 + 2800 =~ 7500
Italy: 6557 vs 2086 + 1900 =~ 4000
Germany: 6933 vs 1627 + 1470 =~ 3100
Ireland: 1515 vs 376+359 =~740
Belgium: 2454 vs 525 +660 =~1185
Switzerland: 1393 vs 143 + 179 =~ 324
Luxembourg: 234 vs 28 + 15 =~43
France: 8728 vs 509 + 758 =~ 1267 (France's worst day was an anomaly of 17355, otherwise they would look even better)
Iceland: 99 vs 3 + 2 = 5

So as you can see, every other country except the US and UK have had fewer cases in the last 2 days than they had on their worst day. Given that we just had 30829 cases yesterday, it will be a while before we get to that point. Now that we're opening things up without good contact tracing in place, it will get worse.

Heathen said:

Armed Michigan right wing protestors stormed the state capital today to try mob tactics against Gov. Whitmer.

Ill repeat that...angry armed protestors carrying rifles and body armor occupied a state building today.

They could be terrorists for all anyone knows. But you know why they're 'patriots' instead.

It's lawful, apparently. Smart? That's another story.

Hundreds of protesters, some carrying guns in the state Capitol, demonstrate against Michigan's emergency measures

Lawmakers declined to extend the state's emergency declaration and voted to bring a lawsuit to challenge Gov. Gretchen Whitmer's authority. Whitmer then issued new emergency orders.

www.nbcnews.com

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Just imagine if they were black. Or Middle Eastern.

lurk said:

This is extremely poor reasoning: 1) the test has a false negative rate up to 33% depending on which test is done, 2) the test takes time to process and is not instantaneous, 3) the faster-processing the version of the test they go with, the more exponentially the false negative rate climbs, 4) there is a lag between infection and the sufficient presence of the virus in the mucus to trigger a positive result on the test (this on top of the false negative rate), 5) mucus that contains the virus must be caught on the swab for there to be anything to test positive in the first place (again, this on top of the inherent false negative rate and far from an impossible concern with a disease process that extremely rarely results in excess mucus production).

The Clinic has very firm masking rules in place for all staff, visitors, and many patients for very good, scientifically-sound reasons. They are not suggestions, they are hard rules for anyone entering one of the buildings, and I would suggest that you stop going out of your way to make excuses for someone flouting them for absolutely no reason.

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That's not exponential growth.

The false negative rate is mostly a function of sample collection. I'd imagine that there are top people taking samples from our top elected officials. It's not a nurse/physician standing outside, hot and tired, doing a hundred a day.


If the clinic was that firm, they'd have forced him to wear a mask.

I'm not trying to make an excuse, I'm just saying it really wasn't that big of a deal or risk. We need to realize it's not about absolutes. It's about minimizing. Even N95 masks aren't 100% safe. Is Pence an arse for doing this? Sure. Does he look stupid? Yes. Is it a big deal? No.

If we start to see spikes in states that open up (I hope we do not, but I feel it is inevitable), will people still try to blame China?

It is obvious that states opening up is going to lead to a surge in cases. It doesn’t take hindsight too see that. The CDC guidelines are not being followed.

The blame will lay entirely on these officials making the decision to open up.

It’s not politics, it is science.

samiam5211 said:

If we start to see spikes in states that open up (I hope we do not, but I feel it is inevitable), will people still try to blame China?

It is obvious that states opening up is going to lead to a surge in cases. It doesn’t take hindsight too see that. The CDC guidelines are not being followed.

The blame will lay entirely on these officials making the decision to open up.

It’s not politics, it is science.

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The politics part will be when those same officials refuse to accept that blame and will point their fingers at anyone but themselves

I hope the bus is gassed up, it’s about to run over some folks

samiam5211 said:

If we start to see spikes in states that open up (I hope we do not, but I feel it is inevitable), will people still try to blame China?

It is obvious that states opening up is going to lead to a surge in cases. It doesn’t take hindsight too see that. The CDC guidelines are not being followed.

The blame will lay entirely on these officials making the decision to open up.

It’s not politics, it is science.

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Eventually we need to look at how we as a nation have handled this.

When you consider that America and South Korea had our first reported case on the same day and we have done horribly since then.

New cases in South Korea have been in the single digits and yesterday they had none.

Meanwhile we had thousands die yesterday and have yet to get a handle on testing.

We need to look at ourselves because everyone is dealing with the same problems.

samiam5211 said:

If we start to see spikes in states that open up (I hope we do not, but I feel it is inevitable), will people still try to blame China?

It is obvious that states opening up is going to lead to a surge in cases. It doesn’t take hindsight too see that. The CDC guidelines are not being followed.

The blame will lay entirely on these officials making the decision to open up.

It’s not politics, it is science.

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So, whatever happened to flatten the curve so that our medical system is not overwhelmed?

Beach Friends said:

So, whatever happened to flatten the curve so that our medical system is not overwhelmed?

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I don’t know. Ask the governors who are opening up before they meet the Trump administration’s guidelines.

samiam5211 said:

I don’t know.

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I didn't think you did.

Beach Friends said:

I didn't think you did.

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Great point.

FullMonte said:

Forget all of that....it's not the point. I don't care if he was 1000% certain he didn't have the virus and he has proven he is immune.

--The CDC recommends people wear cloth masks in public
--The Mayo Clinic has a policy that everyone wear a mask
--The Mayo Clinic has stated publicly that they told Pence of that policy
--Pence could see that everyone (including his own staff) was wearing masks.

As a "leader," he should model the behavior that he expects. He should wear a mask in public as an example to the rest of the US. Being the head of the Coronavirus Task Force and saying "I don't care what anyone says about masks, I'm not wearing one," is a horrible look

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You're missing it.

He is a "leader."

He's leading the resistance to logic and reason and leading his followers against their own self-interest as he attacks the foundation of our civil society.

dtc said:

You're missing it.

He is a "leader."

He's leading the resistance to logic and reason and leading his followers against their own self-interest as he attacks the foundation of our civil society.

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Yeah, I think it was a symbolic gesture, a moronic symbolic gesture....

Does this count as a coronavirus death?


In Turkey, Kazakh native Olesya Suspitsyna perished in front of her female friend who was taking the photograph in the tourist city of Antalya in the south-west of the country.

The incident occurred on Sunday after the government lifted the coronavirus quarantine in the city.

Dadsdream said:

Does this count as a coronavirus death?

In Turkey, Kazakh native Olesya Suspitsyna perished in front of her female friend who was taking the photograph in the tourist city of Antalya in the south-west of the country.

The incident occurred on Sunday after the government lifted the coronavirus quarantine in the city.

Woman falls to her death while posing for a photo on Turkish cliff

Kazakh native Olesya Suspitsyna perished in front of her female friend who was taking the photograph in the tourist city of Antalya in the south-west of the country.

www.dailymail.co.uk

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Is that supposed to be funny or are you trying to imply that all the conspiracy theories about over-stating deaths is comical?

Dadsdream said:

Does this count as a coronavirus death?

In Turkey, Kazakh native Olesya Suspitsyna perished in front of her female friend who was taking the photograph in the tourist city of Antalya in the south-west of the country.

The incident occurred on Sunday after the government lifted the coronavirus quarantine in the city.

Woman falls to her death while posing for a photo on Turkish cliff

Kazakh native Olesya Suspitsyna perished in front of her female friend who was taking the photograph in the tourist city of Antalya in the south-west of the country.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Click to expand...

If you can't figure out something this simple for yourself, perhaps this is not the board for you.