If there was ever a year a third party could make traction... (1 Viewer)

Heathen said:

Uh, yes they do.

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Quote the people that do, instead of just saying they do. Anyone can claim something. You're a Chinese operative. See, anyone can make a claim.

Heathen said:

It can be true that Democratic policies would be less regressive than Republican...

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Thanks for pointing out why the Democratic candidates are the best choice we have in this election. We can deal with future options in future elections.

Heathen said:

...Democrats ARE NOT going to change for those who believe in bold, pragmatic progressive economic policies to strengthen the drowning middle class...

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Biden already implemented policies that have significantly helped the middle class and poor. So who's naive and in fantasy land now? You. The answer is you.

Heathen said:

So those that care about these issues are going to discuss them here, including 3rd party candidates and policy.

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See that's the thing, @Heathen, all you've actually been doing is trashing Democrats. You aren't actually supporting any other party. You spend almost all of your time only trashing Democrats.

Heathen said:

Ohh. Haha. Now this is filthy, dirty, stinky rich coming from LA.

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I'm not the one who complains about ad hominem statements, comrade, that's all you. You make ad hominem remarks towards others while at the same time whining about others making ad hominem remarks toward you. I'm not the hypocrite on this issue.

LA - L.A. said:

I think you're exaggerating and misrepresenting things just trying to agitate people into not voting for Harris and other Democrats.

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I’ve never said this. Look at my posting history regarding Harris. Or don’t. I truly don’t care.

Not going to entertain your nonsense here.

LA - L.A. said:

What did he say about non-white liberals and moderates? You know a lot of non-white liberals and moderates support Democrats, right? They do that because out of the Democrats, Republicans and third parties, they think Democrats are the best for them, perfect no, but better than all of the other alternatives. I look forward to seeing how you insult all of them for thinking that.

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In “Letter from a Birmingham jail” MLK in essence called for a more active, committed form of liberalism that was actually unafraid to confront injustice and radical change, even when it caused discomfort or disruption.

That’s part of the premise in the critique of the Democratic Party, of which many of us are members.

LA - L.A. said:

I'm not the one who complains about ad hominem statements, comrade, that's all you.

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So wait, you’re not saying you don’t make ad hominem statements (one would not need to go far to find them) — you’re just pointing out that I’m the one complaining about them at the moment?

Okay comrade.

Heathen said:

I’ve never said this. Look at my posting history regarding Harris. Or don’t. I truly don’t care.

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Didn't you say you weren't voting for Harris, because your vote doesn't matter in the state you live in? Aren't you the one saying voters should vote 3rd party instead of Democrats?

You still haven't offered an explanation for why so many non-white liberals support the Democratic party, because they think it's the best option they have. Why are they all wrong and you are right?

LA - L.A. said:

Biden already implemented policies that have significantly helped the middle class and poor. So who's naive and in fantasy land now? You. The answer is you.

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Ah, yes. If only all of this were as easy as “see!! He did a thing that addresses this issue in some way! So shut up about it from now on out!”.

I never claimed Biden did nothing. You have the uniquely uncanny ability to paint people with your black and whites when they’ve repeatedly told you that they mean otherwise. You just don’t listen. You keep painting. You hear one bit of negativity or something LA doesn’t like and you might as well throw in the towel for the hopes of a decent discussion.

For instance: one can acknowledge that
Biden has done (literally anything) for the middle class and poor and ALSO acknowledge that it is not nearly enough.

Acknowledge that this waterhose on a house fire situation in which the middle class is year after year in a worse situation is not just unfortunate - it’s wildly WRONG. Especially when we DO have the means to do more as a nation. I won’t have anyone tell me differently as we’re pouring billions into slaughtering children and “can’t afford” healthcare for our citizens abroad.

Does this make sense?

LA - L.A. said:

See that's the thing, @Heathen, all you've actually been doing is trashing Democrats. You aren't actually supporting any other party. You spend almost all of your time only trashing Democrats.

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You seem to be exceptionally sensitive to members of party critiquing their party. We’ve been doing this for a long time in this country. It’s what has made headway for a lot of things we enjoy today. Do you think all party critiques were done the “right way” according to people like @LA - L.A. ?

I can assure you that they weren’t.

Hard discussions, arguments, and frustrations like ours are part of the impetus for change. Maybe not a huge part, but a part nonetheless.

Members of your party irritating your idea of what members of your party should sound like, behave like, etc are here to stay.

Throw your tantrum all you like. I’d just suggest for your sake, you at least get comfy.

Heathen said:

So wait, you’re not saying you don’t make ad hominem statements...

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Do you not read what you respond to? I clearly said that I don't complain about ad hominem statements. You complain all the time while also making them all the time.

LA - L.A. said:

Didn't you say you weren't voting for Harris, because your vote doesn't matter in the state you live in? Aren't you the one saying voters should vote 3rd party instead of Democrats?

You still haven't offered an explanation for why so many non-white liberals support the Democratic party, because they think it's the best option they have. Why are they all wrong and you are right?

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I’ve gone back and forth on the idea. Ultimately it won’t matter toward the general. Voters should vote for whoever they feel fits their needs the best. That’s never changed.

Where did I make any claim about non-white liberals supporting the Democratic Party?

LA - L.A. said:

Do you not read what you respond to? I clearly said that I don't complain about ad hominem statements. You complain all the time while also making them all the time.

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Oh, so you admit that you make them then.

Heathen said:

Ah, yes. If only all of this were as easy as “see!! He did a thing that addresses this issue in some way! So shut up about it from now on out!”.

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You are always misquoting people to create false/strawman arguments. It shows your not being rational or logical. If you had a good arguement you wouldn't have to constantly misrepresent what people actually say. This is what I actually said:

Heathen said:

You seem to be exceptionally sensitive...

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That's an ad hominem-strawman combo. I'm not the one who gets their panties in a bunch when someone disagrees with me. That's all you, amigo.

Heathen said:

...to members of party critiquing their party.

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Why would you be a member of a party that you keep saying people shouldn't vote for? Why would you be a member of a party that you obviously loathe and despise? That's not rational behavior and it doesn't add up at all.

Heathen said:

Members of your party irritating your idea of what members of your party should sound like, behave like, etc are here to stay.

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I'm not a Democrat and I'm here to stay too, well...at least for as long as I'm breathing and remember how to use my computer.

Heathen said:

Throw your tantrum all you like.

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100% psychological projection.

Heathen said:

I’d just suggest for your sake, you at least get comfy.

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What in sam hill is that supposed to mean?

Heathen said:

Where did I make any claim about non-white liberals supporting the Democratic Party?

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You keep saying that the Democratic party isn't really looking out for the middle class and the poor. You also refer to MLK saying that white-liberals are a problem.

A lot of non-white liberals support the Democratic party because they think as a party it fights for the middle class and poor. You say the Democratic party doesn't. Why are you right and all of those other people wrong?

Heathen said:

Oh, so you admit that you make them then.

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You're being intentionally obtuse and deflecting.

We both make ad hominem statements. Only you whine about them when they're aimed at you. I don't. Is that clear enough for you?

Heathen said:

Did you actually watch

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Just like how I didn't read those national enquire magazines in the checkout lane, I don't make it a habit of watching anything with sensationalist titles

Heathen said:

What, being draconian on social issues from the American perspective? Yawn.

You sit in the richest country the planet has ever seen, and millions go hungry on the streets. Millions can’t pay rent.

Democrats are absolutely apart of that. The sheer drones naivety on this site of living in some sort of fantasy world thinking that the Democratic Party is truly fighting to take America’s middle class problems away and if it only weren’t for Republican gridlock, we’d get there - is mind numbingly blind.

“What the GOP has turned into?”

My friend, the Dems have worked with the GOP to implement so many right wing half measures or concessions, it’d make your head spin.



And we’ll play this silly “lesser evil” game until the end of time, by this logic.

By your logic, why should the Democratic Party ever consider the will of its constituents, if they know said constituents will have to vote for them anyway, because they’re always slightly less terrible than the GOP?

I’m interested to hear your answer.

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Yawn.....wake me up when the GOP supports tax code reforms that actually level the playing field, you know, making the billionaires and corporations actually pay their fair share.....they never, ever will and will continue to support only tax breaks for those that need them the least.....

The dems are far from perfect but they are at least....sane.....and they are far from "slightly less terrible", that's utter nonsense.....The GOP has been taken over by a wanna be tin pot dictator that wants to turn this nation into whomever supports his grift (in this case white Christian fascists/nationalists mostly).....if you can't see the difference you are part of the problem.....

I wish we had more options but the reality is.....we don't, when pressed I'm going to go with....sane....

Voter suppression and people just not voting is the reason a lot of red states are red, actually. If we could get higher turnout the GOP would lose statewide elections. There’s only one party who will end gerrymandering and go toward more fair representation if they get the chance.

As an outsider i think that you forget that you (as in people) actually HAVE the power to change things. Get involved, run for office, support someone who are willing to support your ideas. Don't give up and just sit in a chair saying "my vote doesn't count" MAKE it count.

Apathy is the most dangerous enemy of democracy.

Democracy isn't easy. You don't get it served on a plate and sometimes it will feel like banging your head on a steel door. But every little action helps one way or another. It may take years. You don't do this for yourself but for your children and your childrens childen. It may feel hopeless at times, but autocracy and corruption thrives on hopelessness.

MT15 said:

So in your opinion would ranked choice voting be a better option?

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Ranked Choice is a must for our future…

Dragon said:

As an outsider i think that you forget that you (as in people) actually HAVE the power to change things. Get involved, run for office, support someone who are willing to support your ideas. Don't give up and just sit in a chair saying "my vote doesn't count" MAKE it count.

Apathy is the most dangerous enemy of democracy.

Democracy isn't easy. You don't get it served on a plate and sometimes it will feel like banging your head on a steel door. But every little action helps one way or another. It may take years. You don't do this for yourself but for your children and your childrens childen. It may feel hopeless at times, but autocracy and corruption thrives on hopelessness.

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I don't have children, so I do it for everyone and everyone's children.