If there was ever a year a third party could make traction... (1 Viewer)

J-DONK said:

Can we talk about all the parallels between 2016 HRC campaign and Trump:

1. Hubris they already won
2. Propping up a candidate that they think will make it easier for them to win
3. Picking a horrible VP with zero upside

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You literally described the 2024 Joe Biden campaign.

Heathen said:

But it’s many notable Democrats regardless.

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You originally said "Democratic Party." You didn't say "many notable Democrats." You originally claimed that the "Democratic Party" was in large part responsible for the advancements of christofascism. Your original claim is not an accurate statement.

It is accurate to say some Democrats have done some questionable things that might have helped advance christofascism to some degree. That's the objectively true statement.

Heathen said:

I didn’t say the entire Democratic Party...

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You originally proclaimed, "one can understand that the right wishes to institute christofascism and that the Democratic Party is in large part to blame for that advancement."

That is an exaggeration and exaggerations are more inaccurate then they are accurate.

Heathen said:

Ah - so we're back to the accusation game, LA?

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The only one of us playing games is you, whoever you are. When you did your "...review the history of this discussion...," you did in fact claim you originally said something significantly different from what you actually said. I didn't just say you did that, I showed that you did that.

All the people who didn't vote for Hillary Clinton did a hell of a lot more to help advance christofascism in this country than a handful of the members of the Democratic Party have.

I know your response. "Don't blame the voters, blame the Democratic Party for not giving a good candidate." The thing is, you've got no problem blaming people. You're completely on board with blaming things on people. You only get bent out of shape about blaming people, when some of the blame falls on you.

That's why you so get so upset when people point out the objective, factual, and undeniable truth. If every eligible voter who didn't vote for Hilary Clinton would have voted for her, the christofascists would not have advanced nearly as much as they have from Donald Trump winning the election in 2016.

If we're going to blame everyone that played a role in aiding the advancement of christofascism, then equal blame also falls on all of the eligible voters who did not vote for Hilary Clinton in 2016, every single one of them.

samiam5211 said:

There is no way you don’t understand what I’m saying, but your responses suggest that you have no idea what I said.

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I understand what I'm saying and I'm positive what I'm saying is correct. I've been very detailed in what I've said. On the other hand, you just keep saying I'm not correct, but you refuse to explain why. You basically just keep saying, "WRONG," without explaining or pointing out how I'm wrong.

LA - L.A. said:

I understand what I'm saying and I'm positive what I'm saying is correct. I've been very detailed in what I've said. On the other hand, you just keep saying I'm not correct, but you refuse to explain why. You basically just keep saying, "WRONG," without explaining or pointing out how I'm wrong.

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LA - L.A. said:

I understand what I'm saying and I'm positive what I'm saying is correct. I've been very detailed in what I've said. On the other hand, you just keep saying I'm not correct, but you refuse to explain why. You basically just keep saying, "WRONG," without explaining or pointing out how I'm wrong.

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Not gonna do it.

samiam5211 said:

Not gonna do it.

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Not gonna explain how I'm incorrect or can't explain how I'm incorrect?

For those interested, I think this video does a pretty good job of explaining why there is much frustration with Democrats - and explains a good bit of why it’s not nearly as simple as “if it weren’t for the obstructionist GOP, we’d have everything we want” - which is a lot of the talking point you’ll hear repeated.

Heathen said:

....explains a good bit of why it’s not nearly as simple as “if it weren’t for the obstructionist GOP, we’d have everything we want”...

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Not many people actually say that everything is the GOP's fault. What the overwhelming majority of people say is that right now, for this election, Democrats are by far the best choice for Americans than the Republicans are. They aren't saying the Democrats are perfect. They're just stating the fact that Democrats are not the threat to our Democracy that the Republicans are.

Heathen said:

For those interested, I think this video does a pretty good job of explaining why there is much frustration with Democrats - and explains a good bit of why it’s not nearly as simple as “if it weren’t for the obstructionist GOP, we’d have everything we want” - which is a lot of the talking point you’ll hear repeated.

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Yawn, wake me up when the Dems do something even approachable to what the GOP has turned into.....it's not a high bar and they are far, far from perfect but they are at least.....sane.....the GOP is not....it's an easy choice for anyone not in the cult or with a conscience....

SFIDC3 said:

Yawn, wake me up when the Dems do something even approachable to what the GOP has turned into.....it's not a high bar and they are far, far from perfect but they are at least.....sane.....the GOP is not....it's an easy choice for anyone not in the cult or with a conscience....

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hmmm according to that youtuber, American liberals are the most dangerous thing in the Western Hemisphere (I'm sure one or two people on here would disagree, but I just had to lol at this)

zztop said:

hmmm according to that youtuber, American liberals are the most dangerous thing in the Western Hemisphere (I'm sure one or two people on here would disagree, but I just had to lol at this)

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Perfectly logical, another accusation = another confession....

zztop said:

hmmm according to that youtuber, American liberals are the most dangerous thing in the Western Hemisphere (I'm sure one or two people on here would disagree, but I just had to lol at this)

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I think most of the people, making most of the arguments and justifications for voting for a third party candidate instead of any Democratic candidates, are just trying to talk people out of voting for Harris for other reasons, that don't have anything to do with trying to force any kind of political reform.

SFIDC3 said:

Yawn, wake me up when the Dems do something even approachable to what the GOP has turned into....

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What, being draconian on social issues from the American perspective? Yawn.

You sit in the richest country the planet has ever seen, and millions go hungry on the streets. Millions can’t pay rent.

Democrats are absolutely apart of that. The sheer drones naivety on this site of living in some sort of fantasy world thinking that the Democratic Party is truly fighting to take America’s middle class problems away and if it only weren’t for Republican gridlock, we’d get there - is mind numbingly blind.

“What the GOP has turned into?”

My friend, the Dems have worked with the GOP to implement so many right wing half measures or concessions, it’d make your head spin.

SFIDC3 said:

.it's not a high bar and they are far, far from perfect but they are at least.....sane.....the GOP is not....it's an easy choice for anyone not in the cult or with a conscience....

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And we’ll play this silly “lesser evil” game until the end of time, by this logic.

By your logic, why should the Democratic Party ever consider the will of its constituents, if they know said constituents will have to vote for them anyway, because they’re always slightly less terrible than the GOP?

I’m interested to hear your answer.

LA - L.A. said:

I think most of the people, making most of the arguments and justifications for voting for a third party candidate instead of any Democratic candidates, are just trying to talk people out of voting for Harris for other reasons, that don't have anything to do with trying to force any kind of political reform.

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I think you underestimate just how many people are tired of the duopoly.

zztop said:

hmmm according to that youtuber, American liberals are the most dangerous thing in the Western Hemisphere (I'm sure one or two people on here would disagree, but I just had to lol at this)

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Did you actually watch the entire clip?

A great American by the name of Martin Luther King Jr had a lot of choice words about white liberals / moderates and the dangers of their complacency, superficiality, preference for order over justice etc. In the video, it’s discussed how this civil rights leader’s words tie in to a lot of uncomfortable truths today.

I’d be interested to hear your opinion on that.

Heathen said:

You sit in the richest country the planet has ever seen...

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Don't you? Doesn't that make you part of the problem too, by your own logic?

Heathen said:

The sheer drones naivety on this site of living in some sort of fantasy world thinking...

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Now you're showing everyone who you truly are and what you're truly all about.

You're obviously not an American liberal, because your own sources say American liberals are the most dangerous thing in the Western Hemisphere. I thought the Green Party is considered a liberal party, but obviously not.

You say you allegedly want things to improve for the middle class and the poor. You say you allegedly want to achieve that by people voting 3rd party instead of for Democrats. That would lead to Trump to winning the election and things being the worst they've ever been for the middle class and poor. So it's actually you that are being naive, or disingenuous.

Heads up, comrade, you don't get to get all indignant about ad hominem statements after just saying "...sheer drones naivety on this site of living in some sort of fantasy world thinking..."

LA - L.A. said:

Not many people actually say that everything is the GOP's fault.

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Uh, yes they do.

LA - L.A. said:

What the overwhelming majority of people say is that right now, for this election, Democrats are by far the best choice for Americans than the Republicans are. They aren't saying the Democrats are perfect. They're just stating the fact that Democrats are not the threat to our Democracy that the Republicans are.

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Two (or more) things can be true at once.

It can be true that Democratic policies would be less regressive than Republican ones in this election. Sure. We agree. We have agreed in the past. I’m not interested in bouncing that ball back and forth.

It can also be true that Democratic policies aren’t doing nearly enough to counter all of the issues plaguing the middle class, country, and citizens of the world and that many people see that as a danger. You don’t seem to, and that’s fine. I’m not here to convince you otherwise.

My interest here is the fact that Democrats ARE NOT going to change for those who believe in bold, pragmatic progressive economic policies to strengthen the drowning middle class.

So those that care about these issues are going to discuss them here, including 3rd party candidates and policy.

Heathen said:

I think you underestimate just how many people are tired of the duopoly.

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I think you're exaggerating and misrepresenting things just trying to agitate people into not voting for Harris and other Democrats.

Heathen said:

A great American by the name of Martin Luther King Jr had a lot of choice words about white liberals / moderates...

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What did he say about non-white liberals and moderates? You know a lot of non-white liberals and moderates support Democrats, right? They do that because out of the Democrats, Republicans and third parties, they think Democrats are the best for them, perfect no, but better than all of the other alternatives. I look forward to seeing how you insult all of them for thinking that.

LA - L.A. said:

Heads up, comrade, you get to get all indignant about ad hominem statements after just saying

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Ohh. Haha. Now this is filthy, dirty, stinky rich coming from LA.