DOJ dropping criminal case against Gen Flynn (UPDATE: DC Cir. dismisses case) (1 Viewer)

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    Beach Friends said:
    Well, I guess nothing is disqualifying as long as you have Comey to come out and make up elements of a crime and then declare that the facts did not support a finding that those elements were met.

    Or, do you think "butterdidntmeantoo" is more of an affirmative defense?
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    I thought it likely constituted gross negligence under the statute that was implicated.
     
    Tony1Sainstfan said:
    I love a good debate and when I was younger a good fight every now and then. I was in my teens durin the Carter administration and saw the state the country was in. Obama was no different with one exception. Carter didn’t go around apologizing to half baked dictators like Obama did. Remember what Obama said about manufacturing jobs never coming back and when Trump said he would bring them back Obama questioned ”how with magic stick”? Well those nods did come back and even more will be here over the next 4 years.
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    You were 11 when he was elected, and 15 when he left office.

    You probably don't know crap about Carter. Or the little you did, you were too young to understand. Just like I don't go claiming to know much about Reagan.

    sure, manufacturing is up, but it's still down to historic lows, even before the major COVID 19 drop.

    1589948561336.png
     
    wardorican said:
    You were 11 when he was elected, and 15 when he left office.

    You probably don't know crap about Carter. Or the little you did, you were too young to understand. Just like I don't go claiming to know much about Reagan.

    sure, manufacturing is up, but it's still down to historic lows, even before the major COVID 19 drop.

    1589948561336.png
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    Let me tell you what I remember. I remember lines at gas stations. I remember my dad having a hard time finding a job after being laid off. I remember the moral of the nation as I got to see a good cross section having relatives on the west cost in Kansas and North Carolina. I remember our family being on food stamps. I remember cutting grass to help put food on our families table. So you can post all the crap you want I lived through it.
     
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    Tony1Sainstfan said:
    Let me tell you what I remember. I remember lines at gas stations. I remember my dad having a hard time finding a job after being laid off. I remember the moral of the nation as I got to see a good cross section having relatives on the west cost in Kansas and North Carolina. I remember our family being on food stamps. I remember cutting grass to help put food on our families table. So you can post all the crap you want I lived through it.
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    No doubt that you remember all of those things as anyone who lived through those times remembers them as well. Hell, I remember one that you don't remember during that time. I remember racism being rampant during that time. I remember white families throwing bricks through my family's windows simply because we were one of the few black families in the neighborhood. But that's a whole other thread to go down memory lane.

    The question is do you remember what led to the gas shortages that caused the gas lines? Do you remember why your dad was laid off or why he had a hard time getting a job. Did you as a teen at that time understand Stagflation? Remembering is good. Not understanding what caused your memories allow you to place blame where it doesn't belong.
     
    Tony1Sainstfan said:
    Let me tell you what I remember. I remember lines at gas stations. I remember my dad having a hard time finding a job after being laid off. I remember the moral of the nation as I got to see a good cross section having relatives on the west cost in Kansas and North Carolina. I remember our family being on food stamps. I remember cutting grass to help put food on our families table. So you can post all the crap you want I lived through it.
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    Saintamaniac said:
    No doubt that you remember all of those things as anyone who lived through those times remembers them as well. Hell, I remember one that you don't remember during that time. I remember racism being rampant during that time. I remember white families throwing bricks through my family's windows simply because we were one of the few black families in the neighborhood. But that's a whole other thread to go down memory lane.

    The question is do you remember what led to the gas shortages that caused the gas lines? Do you remember why your dad was laid off or why he had a hard time getting a job. Did you as a teen at that time understand Stagflation? Remembering is good. Not understanding what caused your memories allow you to place blame where it doesn't belong.
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    This was more of the point I was getting at. Not that you don't have strong memories of things. But that at that age, we often lack perspective.

    Good on you for how you helped out though. Kids are often willing to do that, if the need arises. We just often give them too much of a cushy life to see it in action.
     
    Saintamaniac said:
    The question is do you remember what led to the gas shortages that caused the gas lines? Do you remember why your dad was laid off or why he had a hard time getting a job. Did you as a teen at that time understand Stagflation? Remembering is good. Not understanding what caused your memories allow you to place blame where it doesn't belong.
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    But that's too hard!!!! *stompsfoot*
     
    Tony1Sainstfan said:
    www.forbes.com

    Manufacturers Added 6 Times More Jobs Under Trump Than Under Obama's Last 2 Years

    The federal government released its first jobs report of 2019, showing that nonfarm payroll grew by 304,000 in January, far above economists’ consensus estimate of 170,000... Trump’s deregulatory and tax policies have confounded his critics and benefited the American worker.
    www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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    The writer of that piece cherry picks from the last two years of the Obama administration, while ignoring the whole of his presidency, as depicted in this graph:
    1589984567569.png

    Manufacturing jobs fell off sharply with the 2008 recession, but started rising steadily from 2010 through 2015. Did Obama bring those manufacturing jobs back?

    The first couple of years of Trump did see a significant increase in manufacturing jobs, but the writer's unsupported assertion that "red-tape cutting and tax cuts" are responsible is questionable. The general trend from 2010 on seems to suggest other reasons other than deregulation and tax cuts. This is especially true when you consider the year after the writer posted his article:

    1589985298428.png

    Some are chalking up the slowdown to the tariffs. I don't know whether that's true or not, but if you're going to credit Trump for an increase, you have to blame him for a decrease as well, right?
     
    not2rich said:
    The writer of that piece cherry picks from the last two years of the Obama administration, while ignoring the whole of his presidency, as depicted in this graph:
    1589984567569.png

    Manufacturing jobs fell off sharply with the 2008 recession, but started rising steadily from 2010 through 2015. Did Obama bring those manufacturing jobs back?

    The first couple of years of Trump did see a significant increase in manufacturing jobs, but the writer's unsupported assertion that "red-tape cutting and tax cuts" are responsible is questionable. The general trend from 2010 on seems to suggest other reasons other than deregulation and tax cuts. This is especially true when you consider the year after the writer posted his article:

    1589985298428.png

    Some are chalking up the slowdown to the tariffs. I don't know whether that's true or not, but if you're going to credit Trump for an increase, you have to blame him for a decrease as well, right?
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    Well it is a fact that Harley Davidson manufacturers motorcycles in Brazil, India, and Thailand to get around steel tariffs and import tariffs the EU set as a result of the other tariffs. To compete in a world market they had to they don't sell enough 35k dollar tricycles to boomers to pay the bills here.

    That is just one many manufacturers pick any other industry it will look similar.
     
    insidejob said:
    Ask your buddy Tony. They're all in response to him.
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    Yep. It started when Tony dropped into a post to make false claims as if they were facts. When another poster listed actual facts concerning Flynn's admission of guilt, it was followed up again by an opinion by Tony that was not rooted in any semblance of discernable reality. When that opinion was mocked as completely nonsensical, Tony responded once again with cherry-picked claims to defend trump. The graphs came in to once again show that the preposterous claims about trump and the cherry-picked data to support the claims were a misrepresentation of what the graphs actually show. It finally ended with Tony going down memory lane without understanding what caused the memories that he remembered.
     
    JimEverett said:
    What is the purpose of calling members "Trumpkins"?
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    Fair point Jim. I just took it as a blunt way of saying what Saintmaniac stated above. And it is a pattern that I've seen for years. It's predictable and sad. And I'll jump on more of those posts, when I see some of you do the same for those on your "team". Heck, I already did last night.

    If Devildog said "Republicans" or "certain Republicans" or "certain Conservatives" would it have been met differently? Or would Beach Friends still take a veiled pot shot about virtue signalling or being a white knight to save the conversation?

    Are we complaining about the way we talk to each other or how some folks just talk about irrelevant crap? Maybe both?

    Farb said:
    Probably to point out how stupid the post was?
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    And how does that contribute to dialogue? I know when I call someone stupid, I expect them to not shut down at all.... (rolls eyes).

    Are you defending the points Tony decided to interject into this thread, which have not a darn thing to do with Flynn? How many levels of "stupid posts" are we at now? Do we ignore the original "stupid post", and go down the chain until you are comfortable calling one out?

    the whole point is if we want this place to be better, to have better, nicer, more thoughtful conversations, then let's clean up our houses.
     
    wardorican said:
    Fair point Jim. I just took it as a blunt way of saying what Saintmaniac stated above. And it is a pattern that I've seen for years. It's predictable and sad. And I'll jump on more of those posts, when I see some of you do the same for those on your "team". Heck, I already did last night.

    If Devildog said "Republicans" or "certain Republicans" or "certain Conservatives" would it have been met differently? Or would Beach Friends still take a veiled pot shot about virtue signalling or being a white knight to save the conversation?

    Are we complaining about the way we talk to each other or how some folks just talk about irrelevant crap? Maybe both?



    And how does that contribute to dialogue? I know when I call someone stupid, I expect them to not shut down at all.... (rolls eyes).

    Are you defending the points Tony decided to interject into this thread, which have not a darn thing to do with Flynn? How many levels of "stupid posts" are we at now? Do we ignore the original "stupid post", and go down the chain until you are comfortable calling one out?

    the whole point is if we want this place to be better, to have better, nicer, more thoughtful conversations, then let's clean up our houses.
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    I didn't call anyone stupid, I called a post a stupid.
    Thanks for helping us all be better, Ward.
     
    wardorican said:
    You all wonder why so many topics are garbage. You're quick to blame the mean liberals, but slow to realize how much garbage you guys post.

    Case in point, "at least you were here to save the day." What's the purpose of that?
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    What I really wonder is how is it possible that you think that you are going to improve the situation by weighing in. I know you may fancy yourself as being unbiased but that's not how others view you. That bias is shown in this very instance by you jumping right past the post calling out "Trumpkins" in order to pull up to the podium to preach to me for gently pointing out that the guy who was throwing out inflammatory language was just adding fuel to the fire.

    Now, if you like, you can continue on speculating about what I would have said in the abscence of such language. I see you are already suggesting what the answers to your hypotheticals would be, so by all means - put words in my mouth and pretend you are being helpful.

    Nobody is buying it though.
     
    Beach Friends said:
    What I really wonder is how is it possible that you think that you are going to improve the situation by weighing in. I know you may fancy yourself as being unbiased but that's not how others view you. That bias is shown in this very instance by you jumping right past the post calling out "Trumpkins" in order to pull up to the podium to preach to me for gently pointing out that the guy who was throwing out inflammatory language was just adding fuel to the fire.

    Now, if you like, you can continue on speculating about what I would have said in the abscence of such language. I see you are already suggesting what the answers to your hypotheticals would be, so by all means - put words in my mouth and pretend you are being helpful.

    Nobody is buying it though.
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    Fair enough, but you've used those terms before.

    I've never said I was unbiased. That's the nature of creeping up on 40. I have said, to some degree, that I'm willing to be introspective and react to data, which I think I have a pretty solid track record on. I'm not a political parrot. I try not to be swept up by the bias. There isn't a single one of us that is unbiased. But how strong is that bias?

    Outside of the term Trumpkin's, which I addressed, the context of the point was valid. And it was a further admonishment of the commentary that Tony1Saintsfan posted. Not related to the topic, hyperbole, and a feeling that seemed detached from facts. And other parts were just wrong. You're seemingly stuck on a word, I'm thinking of the context and the flow of the conversation.
     
    Farb said:
    I didn't call anyone stupid, I called a post a stupid.
    Thanks for helping us all be better, Ward.
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    I didn't say that. I just used that as an example of how people shut down.

    The rest of my post is properly reflected in "calling the post stupid". So, maybe you can weigh in on that.

    Don't thank me if you don't mean it.
     

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