What makes your god the right god? (1 Viewer)

[SystemShock]

Blaise Pascal had people believe that there is a clear choice between 2 propositions, without acknowledging that one of the propositions was not a single option: "Believe in God, you have all to win and nothing to lose"... but which god? Surely you'd lose everything if you chose the wrong god.

Pascal obviously was referring to the Christian god, since he was a Christian, just like just about all of Europe at the time he posited his wager. But humans have worshiped (in one way or another) thousands of gods. Religions have come and go, people have converted to different religions for political gain, entire cultures have been subjugated into a particular religion...

Today, we are left with the Big 5: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism, with all of their branches, as they can't agree on some finer and not so finer points. There are other smaller religions, but those are more regional than global. They all have their gods, their holy books, miracles, prophets, revelations, prophecies... yet, obviously they all cannot be right, even if, when you ask any true believer, they will tell you their religion and their god(s) is(are) the right one(s).

So, what makes your god, or gods, the right ones?

Wouldn't it be a kick in the head to die, go to heaven, and end up standing in front of Ataguchu ?

 

[Yggdrasill]

Christopher Hitchens had a great riposte to Pascal's wager:

I don't believe in any God but I think the (only somewhat glib) answer to your question is this: what makes someone's god/s the right one/s is that they believe in him/her/it/them. Religion is by definition based on faith, faith being the acceptance of something without proof. That's pretty much it, notwithstanding the fact that many faiths and religious traditions inhere in cultural and social practices.

 

[SystemShock]

Christopher Hitchens had a great riposte to Pascal's wager

Yes. My Lord and Savior had many a great riposte for a number of religions claims.

I don't believe in any God but I think the (only somewhat glib) answer to your question is this: what makes someone's god/s the right one/s is that they believe in him/her/it/them. Religion is by definition based on faith, faith being the acceptance of something without proof. That's pretty much it, notwithstanding the fact that many faiths and religious traditions inhere in cultural and social practices.

I agree. However, in the past 20 or so years, there has been a concerned effort to "prove" Christianity, even Muslims have started to get slowly into some level of apologetics, whereas before it was "Islam or beheading", some (very few) are trying to rationalize Islam.

So, I'd like to hear arguments that go beyond faith and using the Bible to prove the Bible, if anyone has any.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Yes. My Lord and Savior had many a great riposte for a number of religions claims.



I agree. However, in the past 20 or so years, there has been a concerned effort to "prove" Christianity, even Muslims have started to get slowly into some level of apologetics, whereas before it was "Islam or beheading", some (very few) are trying to rationalize Islam.

So, I'd like to hear arguments that go beyond faith and using the Bible to prove the Bible, if anyone has any.

Respectfully, I think that your question is oxymoronic insofar as it creates a circular argument, and is in fact what many people who try to "prove" their faith do. You cannot use the Bible to prove the Bible without a priori faith that it is true. Christian apologetics has put in a tremendous amount of (frankly pretty creative and ingenious) effort to establish non-religious proofs of God's existence. Hitchens debated a lot of these folks, perhaps most notably William Lane Craig. Watching the debate, I found Craig's arguments hard to follow at first, in part because he moves really fast, but they are ultimately pretty easily refutable. This is a great page that reviews Craig's main "proofs" of God's existence. https://conwayhall.org.uk/ethicalrecord/william-lane-craigs-eight-reasons-for-god-refuted/

But I too would like to hear posters on this thread put forth arguments to prove religion.

 

[SystemShock]

Respectfully, I think that your question is oxymoronic

Uh huh..

 

[Yggdrasill]

Uh huh..

did i misread your question?

 

[Yggdrasill]

did i misread your question?

Sorry, I DID misread your question! I thought you were asking FOR arguments using the Bible to prove the Bible rather than the opposite. Sorry! Brain failure...

 

[sonic boom]

Yes. My Lord and Savior had many a great riposte for a number of religions claims.



So, I'd like to hear arguments that go beyond faith and using the Bible to prove the Bible, if anyone has any.

I joined the M.A.P. Forums, mostly to talk about the Christian faith. So, with that said....

I would like to first clarify your position. You did say, "My Lord and Savior", so does this imply you are a Christian?

I think it's important to know what your intent is. If it's just to poke fun and undermine people's faith, than I think I will pass on the request. Please let me know what your leanings are, so I can properly address the topic.

 

[SystemShock]

I would like to first clarify your position. You did say, "My Lord and Savior", so does this imply you are a Christian?

That comment was in direct response to the mention of Christopher Hitchens, in jest. If you don't know who he was, he was as anti-religion as it gets, and a champion of sorts for us heathen.

I think it's important to know what your intent is. If it's just to poke fun and undermine people's faith, than I think I will pass on the request. Please let me know what your leanings are, so I can properly address the topic.

My leaning is simply, I am an atheist. I will tell you, if your goal is to have conversations with like-minded individuals about the glory of your particular god, then you may want to stay clear of my threads and refrain from replying to any of my comments. But be aware this is a public forum, and I may participate in any thread and reply to any comment I feel needs a response.

As for undermining people's faiths, that goes with the territory. I think religious faith is irrational.

As for my request, the description is in the OP.

 

[sonic boom]

That comment was in direct response to the mention of Christopher Hitchens, in jest. If you don't know who he was, he was as anti-religion as it gets, and a champion of sorts for us heathen.



My leaning is simply, I am an atheist. I will tell you, if your goal is to have conversations with like-minded individuals about the glory of your particular god, then you may want to stay clear of my threads and refrain from replying to any of my comments. But be aware this is a public forum, and I may participate in any thread and reply to any comment I feel needs a response.

As for undermining people's faiths, that goes with the territory. I think religious faith is irrational.

As for my request, the description is in the OP.

Thanks for a civil response! I appreciate that.

I will answer your request to the best of my ability, but if you really seek a more intelligent response, there is always Google, and a local pastor at a church near by.

I would say, the Bible, Creation, and personal testimony is what most Christians base their faith on.

Almost forgot, Jews are still alive today, despite historical persecution. Jews are the one who wrote the Bible and Jesus was Jewish also. Jews in Israel are great testimony for me, for they give creditability of the stories in the Bible. There are some that have Jewish blood and believe in Jesus, just like when Jesus lived on earth among the people of that age.

You obviously have rejected the Bible, so it would seem you wouldn't be to interested in reading any more Bible verses. To discuss the Christian faith without quoting scripture, would go against what Jesus did. Jesus quoted scripture constantly, so please forgive me for breaking the rules of the thread.

If I were to discuss Creation, you would automatically reject the view, probably due to the mainstream view of the Big Bang Theory, Darwin's Theory, and possibly Carbon dating. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

If I shared my faith and how God directed my life, and shared my testimony, this would probably do little in persuading you. Maybe if it came from Drew Brees, this would give more creditability to you. Who knows?

I will leave a few videos here and feel free to express your views, since that is what a pubic domain is all about. The videos below are for a quick reply, sorry for not being more personal in the reply.

Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible

Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells specific events-in detail-many years, sometimes centuries, before they occur. Approximately 2,500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2,000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors.

reasons.org

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Sonic Boom - thanks for engaging in this thread. So, I would like to ask you SystemShock's question with slightly different wording. Why are you a Christian as opposed to, say, a Muslim or a Jew? What makes you believe that Christianity is the truth? They all have religious texts and Creation stories.

On the Bible, you posted a video that purports to establish through archaeology that the Bible is "true." I don't understand how you think it does so. It certainly shows how the Bible is a valid historical document, with accurate references to people and places, but I am not aware of anyone serious who denies that it is in this regard. But the "truths" in the video are archaeological not spiritual, having nothing to do with God.

You also mentioned Creation. What is it about Creation that makes you believe in Christianity?

 

[sonic boom]

Sonic Boom - thanks for engaging in this thread. So, I would like to ask you SystemShock's question with slightly different wording. Why are you a Christian as opposed to, say, a Muslim or a Jew? What makes you believe that Christianity is the truth? They all have religious texts and Creation stories.

On the Bible, you posted a video that purports to establish through archaeology that the Bible is "true." I don't understand how you think it does so. It certainly shows how the Bible is a valid historical document, with accurate references to people and places, but I am not aware of anyone serious who denies that it is in this regard. But the "truths" in the video are archaeological not spiritual, having nothing to do with God.

You also mentioned Creation. What is it about Creation that makes you believe in Christianity?

Thank you!

Just clarifying, are these questions for SystemShock or me?

 

[Yggdrasill]

Thank you!

Just clarifying, are these questions for SystemShock or me?

For you. I already have a good sense for what SystemShock thinks on these questions.

 

[sonic boom]

Sonic Boom - thanks for engaging in this thread. So, I would like to ask you SystemShock's question with slightly different wording. Why are you a Christian as opposed to, say, a Muslim or a Jew? What makes you believe that Christianity is the truth? They all have religious texts and Creation stories.

On the Bible, you posted a video that purports to establish through archaeology that the Bible is "true." I don't understand how you think it does so. It certainly shows how the Bible is a valid historical document, with accurate references to people and places, but I am not aware of anyone serious who denies that it is in this regard. But the "truths" in the video are archaeological not spiritual, having nothing to do with God.

You also mentioned Creation. What is it about Creation that makes you believe in Christianity?

I have never talked to you before, so you go first, and tell me what you believe. Answer all the questions above first, then I will go.

 

[Yggdrasill]

I have never talked to you before, so you go first, and tell me what you believe. Answer all the questions above first, then I will go.

If you read the thread you'll see I already have.