United States vs. Venezuela

[superchuck500]

For some time now, the US has been concentrating naval forces (with Marine detachments) in the Caribbean and general vicinity of Venezuela. Observers have expected some kind of operation there but what that would be wasn't clear. In the past days, the USA's high-profile destruction of an alleged Venezuelan narcotics vessel (including Rubio's explanation that the vessel - not carrying any sort of flag and operated by assumed civilians - was destroyed and its 11 occupants instead of arrested based on orders directly from Trump because it "was an immediate danger to the United States") appears to be setting up some kind of pretext for additional action, a Venezuelan 'Gulf of Tonkin incident' if you will. Trump has indeed promised that this is the beginning of a campaign.

Critics have pointed that the US military's action against the vessel likely violated both international law and well-established US policy. Others have said it is likely that the vessel had migrants and not narcotics. And of course with Trump and his henchmen, the given explanation (combating drug trafficking) is never the actual reason - it's always something more directly tied to Trump's ego and thirst for accolades and retribution.

From a post last week on the buildup:

U.S. Navy Destroyers, Submarine, Amphibious Ships Being Sent Toward Venezuela

The White House calls Venezuelan ruler Maduro a "narco-terrorist" and is deploying ships, planes and Marines in a major show of force.

www.twz.com

Analysis on the legal implications of the destruction of the vessel and its 11 occupants.

Legal Issues Raised by a Lethal U.S. Military Attack in the Caribbean

The Trump administration’s extraordinary lethal attack on this purported smuggling vessel raises significant potential legal issues.

www.justsecurity.org

 

[bird]

Wake me up when he goes after Mexican cartels.

You will be well rested then.

 

[faceman]

LOL

we always punch down. Never even or up.

Yep, more lies from this administration.

Ask PolitiFact: Does Venezuela send drugs to the US?

Experts say it’s unlikely the Venezuelan government is trafficking drugs to the U.S. The country plays a minor role in trafficking drugs that reach the U.S. Most fentanyl in the U.S. comes from Mexico, and most cocaine comes from Colombia.

www.politifact.com

"The reality is that while Maduro’s government is an authoritarian corrupt regime, drug trafficking from Venezuela is relatively minor compared to other countries in the region such as Colombia, Ecuador, Guatemala and Mexico," said David Smilde, a Tulane University sociologist who studies violence in Venezuela.

Phil Gunson, senior analyst for the Andes Region at International Crisis Group, a conflict resolution think tank, said the Trump administration has conflated several situations to reach the conclusion that a cartel runs Venezuela in order to justify U.S. military action. An April U.S. intelligence report cast doubt on the notion that Tren de Aragua is run by Maduro.

"For all the many sins of the Maduro dictatorship, there is no evidence to suggest that it is engaged in a war of terror against the US, or that it is using drugs and violent criminals to undermine the US government," Gunson said.

 

[MT15]

Evidently Stephen Miller ordered another strike and Hegseth carried it out. It’s bat shirt crazy, and they are provably killing fishermen. They never say who was targeted, never provide proof of ties to drug smuggling and these are civilians engaging in crime, allegedly, not enemy combatants. This is the act of a rogue, lawless nation.

 

[Dragon]

Yep, more lies from this administration.

Ask PolitiFact: Does Venezuela send drugs to the US?

Experts say it’s unlikely the Venezuelan government is trafficking drugs to the U.S. The country plays a minor role in trafficking drugs that reach the U.S. Most fentanyl in the U.S. comes from Mexico, and most cocaine comes from Colombia.

www.politifact.com

"The reality is that while Maduro’s government is an authoritarian corrupt regime, drug trafficking from Venezuela is relatively minor compared to other countries in the region such as Colombia, Ecuador, Guatemala and Mexico," said David Smilde, a Tulane University sociologist who studies violence in Venezuela.

Phil Gunson, senior analyst for the Andes Region at International Crisis Group, a conflict resolution think tank, said the Trump administration has conflated several situations to reach the conclusion that a cartel runs Venezuela in order to justify U.S. military action. An April U.S. intelligence report cast doubt on the notion that Tren de Aragua is run by Maduro.

"For all the many sins of the Maduro dictatorship, there is no evidence to suggest that it is engaged in a war of terror against the US, or that it is using drugs and violent criminals to undermine the US government," Gunson said.

It is all about oil... He is reusing an old excuse to either force Venezuela to make concessions or to outright take military actions

 

[efil4]

It is all about oil... He is reusing an old excuse to either force Venezuela to make concessions or to outright take military actions

 

[MT15]

And it wasn’t enough. It’s never enough for an autocrat. Plus, I believe he only sees the upside of a war with Venezuela, as far as his own political future.

The last boat the US military blew up wasn’t even Venezuelan. Columbia says it was a boat from Columbia. This just shows they don’t know who they are killing.

 

[coldseat]

This thread should be renamed "The United States Right Wing Autocrats vs. Venezuela War".

 

[efil4]

Bunny01 and Bunny02 .

2 B52s currently in holding pattern in central Caribbean just between PR and Venezuela

 

[efil4]

I was wondering what this was
It was a deportation flight that got turned away at landing due to the B52 presence

 

[MT15]

 

[efil4]

 

[MT15]

And this entire exercise is futile. The problem is the demand. You cannot stop the problem solely from the supply side. Not in a free country like we still are.

 

[MT15]

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Bunny01 and Bunny02 .

2 B52s currently in holding pattern in central Caribbean just between PR and Venezuela

Unless you're talking about a "the B-52's" tribute band, that's some bullshirt.

 

[efil4]

Unless you're talking about a "the B-52's" tribute band, that's some bullshirt.

this was more than likely a "training run" with the flight path, pattern etc.

and lets be honest, Venezuela is a small country. But they have some defensive resources, albeit older/out dated SAMS and AD, but they have them.

It will only take one SAM to bring down a B52. Then the question is, how does this Administration respond? You were the aggressor, got popped in the face, so do you step back and recalibrate or do you lose your mind and bum rush the opponent who made you bleed?

Either scenario is a "no win" - you look soft in light of losing "x" number of US service members for an absolutely STUPID operation ( bombing so called "cartel havens" ) or you look entirely too heavy handed in a full on war with Venezuela and its people over something that could be controlled in a much milder way.

 

[Maxp]

X and Bluesky links hardly ever load on this site and TOS. Not sure what to do, using Chrome.

 

[MT15]

X and Bluesky links hardly ever load on this site and TOS. Not sure what to do, using Chrome.

I think this is a known issue and Andrus is working on it. Sometimes they load very slowly for me, so if I just go on another tab for a bit and then come back they will be there. Other times they load as they should. Intermittent issues are the absolute worst to try to find.

 

[RobF]

X and Bluesky links hardly ever load on this site and TOS. Not sure what to do, using Chrome.

I find if I click on the timestamp of the post containing the link (the one at the top left of the post saying, e.g. "31 minutes ago" or "Today at 1:46 PM") to reload the page directly to that post, the embedded link in that post then loads immediately. If there's more than two in the post, the third one usually doesn't load right away though (I think it shows up eventually, but I'm not usually hanging around to see).