Student Loan Forgiveness Thread (1 Viewer)

[Farb]

In an attempt to save the Dem Candidate Tracker thread from a complete derail of my making, I am starting this thread on the proposal by a lot of Democrat Candidates and some Repubs to forgive, default on student loans.https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sen...ense-criticism-plan-forgive/story?id=68511531

 

[RegularChuck]

From what I’ve read about it, I’m against it. I am for making higher education more financially accessible, but not like this.

If she really wants to run with that idea as part of her platform, I suggest she say that Mexico will pay for it. She’ll probably be able to pick up some more support that way. At the very least she won’t turn off the people who support the wealthy. Get voted in first then pull the old switcheroo trick.

 

[samiam5211]

The country benefits if college is free, and if student debt is forgiven.

The GI bill paid for my school, we paid for my wife’s through a combination of loans and our own money.

Neither of us would feel cheated if debt was forgiven and college was funded going forward. It would be better for the country. People who say they feel cheated because they paid for theirs need to grow up.

We can figure out the details and it will have to be evaluated and adapted as we go along, but it would be a net positive

 

[Beach Friends]

I don't blame people for feeling scammed by the university product, but no.

 

[RegularChuck]

The country benefits if college is free, and if student debt is forgiven.

The GI bill paid for my school, we paid for my wife’s through a combination of loans and our own money.

Neither of us would feel cheated if debt was forgiven and college was funded going forward. It would be better for the country. People who say they feel cheated because they paid for theirs need to grow up.

We can figure out the details and it will have to be evaluated and adapted as we go along, but it would be a net positive

But look at the narrative already. Republicans will put the pedal to the metal with that narrative. She needs to change it up to not upset those folks and get their support. Even if how to pay for it isn’t realistic, make it so Republicans are on board and then work out the details later. You lay out a realistic detailed plan now and Republicans will pick it apart in one way or another.

 

[samiam5211]

But look at the narrative already. Republicans will put the pedal to the metal with that narrative. She needs to change it up to not upset those folks and get their support. Even if how to pay for it isn’t realistic, make it so Republicans are on board and then work out the details later. You lay out a realistic detailed plan now and Republicans will pick it apart in one way or another.

I don’t think presidential candidates should ever lay out detailed plans and we shouldn’t trust the ones that do. Congress is going to decide what the plan is anyway.

That’s not the same as Trump having no plan because he had no intention of ever doing anything that required a plan.

Saying we’ll figure out what we need and what we can spend and do what we can. Then as president just make sure Congress makes progress in those issues.

 

[Farb]

I don’t think presidential candidates should ever lay out detailed plans and we shouldn’t trust the ones that do. Congress is going to decide what the plan is anyway.

Quoted for truth.

 

[wardorican]

In an attempt to save the Dem Candidate Tracker thread from a complete derail of my making, I am starting this thread on the proposal by a lot of Democrat Candidates and some Repubs to forgive, default on student loans.https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sen...ense-criticism-plan-forgive/story?id=68511531

It's an interesting problem. And it's a problem that has been in the making for about 20 years, more so the last 10-15.

States cut funding (or slowed it down), various universities were in remodel or expansion mode due to rising enrollments. You also had the IT boom, needing all kinds of new infrastructure (that now needs to be updated every so often). You then had to create a new, larger, department of IT for every University. There has been the bloat of Admin, which I'm not happy with. Due to all that, and some other issues, Tuition was steadily increasing at a 10-20% clip year on year. That's insane. But that debt, it usually pretty manageable, so long as you're in state and not at a private school.

Co-mingled with that, you have for profit schools, which are as expensive or more so than Private schools, but will let anyone in and basically con you into taking out max loans to pay for it.. but it's ok, you'll be flush with cash when you finish our program!

And, as stated before, co-mingled with all of that are the students who were idiots managing their money and took out the maximum loan amounts every semester, even if they didn't need it. Either blowing it on stuff, or not realizing how much interest piled up while asleep at the fiscal wheel. There are plenty of examples of that. However, I'm not sure they're the norm. But, they skew the average, along with the kids who went to for profit schools.

So, State legislatures were asleep at the wheel, and the Federal government can't control state budgets, so they just watched it happen, powerless. We're now left with a lot of public debt, and expensive schools, that don't need to be that expensive.

What do we do? I'm all for more state funding, and rules preventing over charging tuition and large rate hikes. I wouldn't mind seeing a deal where States increase funding, but demand a 5% overhead cut, so that tuition could either stay put, or actually be lowered.

What do you do with all of that debt? I don't mind forgiveness.. maybe to a point. And maybe there is some sort of deal for folks who took out loans and paid them off, either completely or mostly. Maybe some sort of tax break, spread out. Maybe a federal grant for a down payment for a home, or something. I don't know. I get where that dad was upset, but at the same time, likely was looking at it with too narrow a lens.

Maybe we don't just forgive it, but we make folks do something for that forgiveness. Something close to Pete's idea of public service. Something close to the CCC, where there is a tangible benefit to the nation. Or the Peace Corps, but for here.

I look at it sort of like her Wealth Tax. it's an idea, and a stance on an unaddressed problem. It may not be the final solution, but it's a starting point for negotiating.

Panic of 1819 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We've done some levels of debt forgiveness before. it doesn't have to be paid off. It may just be wiped away. Or just allow people to file bankruptcy on it.

 

[Archies Ghost]

I am all for student debt forgiveness on the basis of fraud.

A university education isn't what it used to be and those poor kids were seriously defrauded in a very large percentage of the total.

Real education is rapidly moving away from the university system. Only technical or professional training requiring certification and/or transcripts from an accredited school is worth pissing money away in a university.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Outside of the contrived moral argument that paying off the debt builds character or whatever- what are the compelling reasons not to forgive the debt?

 

[JRad]

I don't have a horse in this race given I did not go to college. I don't see a reason not to, as long as it can be paid for responsibly. I know several friends and coworkers who are just dumping money into those student loans (my closest friend has a doctorate and that bill is a house note), and having that extra money should mean they would have more to put into the economy, which I would see as a net benefit.

I will also agree that making college free is a net benefit to the entire country. Even if (spitballing) you wanted to let state universities be free and put some sort of credit to private universities so people still had that choice.

 

[LonghornSaint]

Outside of the contrived moral argument that paying off the debt builds character or whatever- what are the compelling reasons not to forgive the debt?

I have never understood why it cannot be treated like any other type of debt that can be removed through declaring bankruptcy.

As someone who had over $80k in student loan debt after undergrad and graduate school, I am painfully aware that the legit programs out there for relief are incredibly narrow in scope, and very very few qualify. I have made more than the min payment for years, typically around $1500/mo, and I really wish I could have been paying off a mortgage with that money rather than renting, at the age of 50.

I just paid off all remaining student loans recently, a little over $33k, with an inheritance windfall. It felt great, but again, I wish it could have gone towards owning my own place.

I would never begrudge anyone in the future from benefitting from legislature that changes things for them, even though it would not retroactively benefit me.

 

[MT15]

I am all for student debt forgiveness on the basis of fraud.

A university education isn't what it used to be and those poor kids were seriously defrauded in a very large percentage of the total.

Real education is rapidly moving away from the university system. Only technical or professional training requiring certification and/or transcripts from an accredited school is worth pissing money away in a university.

This is a pretty extreme view, IMO. Fraud is a strong word to use for a traditional university education. I went to a large public university and got a top notch education with minimal debt. But that was a long time ago, so let’s look more recently.

Both my children did the same, one a BA in Communications, the other a BS, and MS in physics. Three different public universities. One is now 36 the other 39. Both have careers that wouldn’t have been possible without those degrees. Both graduated with student debt in the $20k to $30k range. Both have paid this debt off and one is also on their second home. The other rents by choice.

My degree was in a science, but it also taught me how to think and reason. Sure, you don’t have to go to university to get that, but it also exposed me to a lot of different people and ways of thinking in a short time span in a very effective way. It may not be for everyone, but saying it’s for no one is a huge mistake.

oh, and the public university I went to as well as the kid who got the BA in Communication has frozen tuition for the last five or six years.

For profit colleges need to be regulated out of existence, though. They actually are a fraud. I know you know which one was famously shut down not all that long ago.

 

[Beach Friends]

I would be more receptive if universities were not infested with postmodern crap. As it stands, I don't care to fund the demise of Western civilization with our tax dollars. We do too much of that already.

That's where the fraud is. Students go into college with healthy brains. They leave confused about which bathroom to use.

 

[MT15]

I would be more receptive if universities were not infested with postmodern crap. As it stands, I don't care to fund the demise of Western civilization with our tax dollars. We do too much of that already.

That's where the fraud is. Students go into college with healthy brains. They leave confused about which bathroom to use.

Another extreme view. You guys are buying into a narrative. I work with recent college grads almost exclusively. I have not met one yet that is as you describe. If you believe what you said, then you are taking some extreme cases, and magnifying them.

The current generation, the one that has graduated within the last 5-7 years, are a great group, overall, at least in my experience. I have more personnel issues with my middle age and older team members. And it’s not even close. I find the recent college grads to be cheerful, reliable and industrious. They are team oriented and engaged.

 

[samiam5211]

I am all for student debt forgiveness on the basis of fraud.

I don't think anyone took out a loan to pay for Trump University.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

I would be more receptive if universities were not infested with postmodern crap. As it stands, I don't care to fund the demise of Western civilization with our tax dollars. We do too much of that already.

That's where the fraud is. Students go into college with healthy brains. They leave confused about which bathroom to use.

Man I really wish there was a place you could go where you could be exposed to new ideas and have your biases challenged so you could have a healthier more well-rounded way to view the world..,
Oh wait

 

[wardorican]

I would be more receptive if universities were not infested with postmodern crap. As it stands, I don't care to fund the demise of Western civilization with our tax dollars. We do too much of that already.

That's where the fraud is. Students go into college with healthy brains. They leave confused about which bathroom to use.

Not sure where you went to college or which ones you're looking into, but mine wasn't like that.

And the discussion isn't just about Fraud, or if you like a program or not, it's more about the idea that government underfunded Universities for too long, and passed the buck to the less educated and able populace. Blame the students, and their parents, if you want, but everyone sees it as an investment into their future.