Min wage/UBI/debt forgiveness... (1 Viewer)

GMRfellowtraveller

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
1,136
Reaction score
1,495
Age
54
Location
new orleans
Offline
What keeps the prices for everything from puffing up to absorb new, available cash?

is there a mechanism to keep rents and goods and services from increasing by 500%?
 

Incumbent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
167
Reaction score
407
Location
United States
Offline
Yeah, unless we can keep inflation in check, I'm not sure how effective the bump up will be.

“The inflation rate in the United States between 2009 and today has been 22.35%, which translates into a total increase of $22.35. This means that 100 dollars in 2009 are equivalent to 122.35 dollars in 2020.”


2009 is the last time minimum wage was raised. Inflation is an economic reality, regardless. Planned minimum wage increases should be, too.
 

wardorican

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
3,567
Reaction score
4,028
Age
41
Location
Ft. Lauderdale
Offline
What keeps the prices for everything from puffing up to absorb new, available cash?

is there a mechanism to keep rents and goods and services from increasing by 500%?
debt cancellation... not that much. Frees up some income, but likely not blowing up rents. More likely helping the automotive market. A one time, 10k debt erasure isn't going to make housing rise by a factor of 5.

UBI.. no idea. Not really in the cards now.

Min wage increases? Not likely. A floor of 31k (assuming 40 hours), vs 20k (for states paying at least 10 per hour), or as low as 15k for fed min wage might change the low end housing market, but 31k isn't doing a damn thing to the median home.

Now, housing in rural Nebraska, Texas, and other areas might go up a little bit. But housing already is stupid.

Honestly, most of you know my take on wages. They're all too low. Wage supression is so rampant, it makes me sick. Even me, who makes a solid wage is grossly underpaid.
 

J-DONK

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
368
Reaction score
474
Age
42
Location
Minnesota
Offline
I'm not an economist, but during a recession normally you have fears of deflation. My theory is that any inflation caused by raising minimum wage will be fully, or partially absorbed by the recession. The same would probably be true of UBI.
 

DaveXA

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
3,076
Reaction score
2,245
Location
Vienna, VA (via Lafayette)
Offline
“The inflation rate in the United States between 2009 and today has been 22.35%, which translates into a total increase of $22.35. This means that 100 dollars in 2009 are equivalent to 122.35 dollars in 2020.”


2009 is the last time minimum wage was raised. Inflation is an economic reality, regardless. Planned minimum wage increases should be, too.

Absolutely. I'd rather we set the minimum wage at 15 and then tie it to inflation going forward. What I worry about is bumping to 15 and then seeing inflation spike in response to the increase rather than it being steady. If minimum wage is tied to inflation, then raising prices just in response would be pointless.
 

Lapaz

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
786
Reaction score
744
Age
58
Location
Alabama
Offline
Raising the minimum wage everywhere to the same limit doesn't make sense. $15 in Manhattan is probably equivalent to $5 in most of the country. The minimum wage should be indexed to the area's cost of living. Higher skilled jobs are going to have to rise to maintain an incentive for people to take those jobs. That's how inflation will follow.
 

DaveXA

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
3,076
Reaction score
2,245
Location
Vienna, VA (via Lafayette)
Offline
Raising the minimum wage everywhere to the same limit doesn't make sense. $15 in Manhattan is probably equivalent to $5 in most of the country. The minimum wage should be indexed to the area's cost of living. Higher skilled jobs are going to have to rise to maintain an incentive for people to take those jobs. That's how inflation will follow.

I agree with that. Cost of living index would probably be the way to go. But they have to still index it to inflation as well so we don't have to keep revisiting this issue.
 

Lapaz

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
786
Reaction score
744
Age
58
Location
Alabama
Offline
I agree with that. Cost of living index would probably be the way to go. But they have to still index it to inflation as well so we don't have to keep revisiting this issue.
Agreed. I have not heard Democrats advocating for indexing for area cost of living and inflation in particular, since it is useful to keep the issue alive for political reasons. That’s sad, because doing that would practically eliminate it from politics and fix it permanently.
 

RobF

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
504
Reaction score
1,680
Location
Warrington, UK
Offline
Raising the minimum wage everywhere to the same limit doesn't make sense. $15 in Manhattan is probably equivalent to $5 in most of the country. The minimum wage should be indexed to the area's cost of living. Higher skilled jobs are going to have to rise to maintain an incentive for people to take those jobs. That's how inflation will follow.
It does make sense, because it's a floor, not a limit. There's nothing in a national minimum precluding areas with higher cost of living having higher minimum wages than the national minimum one. Having a national floor for wages makes sense in a similar way having a national basis for other regulatory standards does. It limits the race to the bottom effect; without it, there's inherently a systemic pressure pushing down on costs of living (and hence standards of living) beyond reason in order to reduce wages to out-compete other areas, which in turns pressures those areas to do the same. Only indexing to an area's cost of living could just make that systematic. But with a decent, national, minimum wage, there's a reasonable floor to that preventing increases in inequality and drops in standard of living going beyond a reasonable point.

As for higher skilled jobs, if the job isn't paying more than $15 an hour and it's not otherwise preferable to, say, flipping burgers, fruit picking, or cleaning toilets, then it probably should be paying more. Are there any particular higher skilled jobs you can think of that might be affected?

And regarding inflation, increasing minimum wages will raise some costs, but it's a shift in equilibrium which at most reduces but by no means eliminates the benefits of decent minimum wages. Put it this way, if that principle applied in that direction, it would also apply in the opposite, so consider the inverse; how many people are arguing to lower minimum wages in order to reduce the cost of living? Would you support that?

There's certainly arguments to be made about how much higher a national minimum wage should be, and how quickly it should be reached, but I think, given how low it is currently, there's certainly a solid case that it should be substantially higher. (And the same applies here in the UK as it happens).
 

The moose

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
1,361
Reaction score
1,217
Age
52
Location
New Orleans
Offline
Agreed. I have not heard Democrats advocating for indexing for area cost of living and inflation in particular, since it is useful to keep the issue alive for political reasons. That’s sad, because doing that would practically eliminate it from politics and fix it permanently.

Well I think the next problem after the wage goes up is gonna be the Walmart scam.

I really think to get around this more employers will cut hours and spread that one job to multiple people and then we are in the same boat.

I understand some people want to work part time but I'd the vast majority of the available jobs become part time then we are just as screwed.
 

Mr. Blue Sky

Still P***** at Yoko
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
531
Reaction score
970
Location
Between the Moon and New York City
Offline
Well I think the next problem after the wage goes up is gonna be the Walmart scam.

I really think to get around this more employers will cut hours and spread that one job to multiple people and then we are in the same boat.

I understand some people want to work part time but I'd the vast majority of the available jobs become part time then we are just as screwed.



I’m no economist, but how would having a minimum wage of , say, $15 per hour save Walamart any money if they had 3 people doing one job, or one person doing one job? We‘re not talking about benefits/insurance, which is what i would assume the ‘Walmart scam” to refer to- if 2 or 3 people are working part time (versus one full time), then Walmart saves $$ on benefits.. but for wages, Walmart has to pay $600 ($15 per hour times 40 hrs) whether it’s to 1 person or 3 persons.
 

wardorican

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
3,567
Reaction score
4,028
Age
41
Location
Ft. Lauderdale
Offline
Well I think the next problem after the wage goes up is gonna be the Walmart scam.

I really think to get around this more employers will cut hours and spread that one job to multiple people and then we are in the same boat.

I understand some people want to work part time but I'd the vast majority of the available jobs become part time then we are just as screwed.
I know you mean companies in general, but interestingly enough, Walmart already pays 15 or more for various positions.

.
 

The moose

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
1,361
Reaction score
1,217
Age
52
Location
New Orleans
Offline
I’m no economist, but how would having a minimum wage of , say, $15 per hour save Walamart any money if they had 3 people doing one job, or one person doing one job? We‘re not talking about benefits/insurance, which is what i would assume the ‘Walmart scam” to refer to- if 2 or 3 people are working part time (versus one full time), then Walmart saves $$ on benefits.. but for wages, Walmart has to pay $600 ($15 per hour times 40 hrs) whether it’s to 1 person or 3 persons.


Not Walmart I was just saying others will follow that model to continue to profit.

Had a neighbor that lost her job a few years back got a stop gap job a sam club. They worked her five days a week four hour a day.

That employment cost the employees a ton in transportation yet you see very little financial gain. The problems are numerous with that model.
 

The moose

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
1,361
Reaction score
1,217
Age
52
Location
New Orleans
Offline
I know you mean companies in general, but interestingly enough, Walmart already pays 15 or more for various positions.

.

Yep that is nice that Walmart is stepping up. Giving more money to a handful of employees is a start. 150k employees are getting a raise.

The numbers of employees at Walmart is staggering they are by leaps and bounds the largest employer in the country.

When Walmart is second to the us department of defense in employing people they set the standards that american companies follow. We definitely don't need anyone following that model of well over a million part time employees.
 

DaveXA

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
3,076
Reaction score
2,245
Location
Vienna, VA (via Lafayette)
Offline
Well I think the next problem after the wage goes up is gonna be the Walmart scam.

I really think to get around this more employers will cut hours and spread that one job to multiple people and then we are in the same boat.

I understand some people want to work part time but I'd the vast majority of the available jobs become part time then we are just as screwed.

That's already being done extensively.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Advertisement

General News Feed

Fact Checkers News Feed

Sponsored

Top Bottom