Increasing racist attacks on Asian (1 Viewer)

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Farb

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/02/09/attacks-asian-american-elderly-/

I will admit, I didn't know anything about these these strings of attacks and the murder of elderly Asian American out west. Really disturbing. In most cases, they have caught sub human scum that have committed these crimes.
In the case of the murder of Ratanapakdee, I sincerely hope the death penalty will be sought, although that is not possible in the state of CA.
 

Nebaghead

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And clearly you haven't read ANY of the information I supplied in my previous (ish) post.
Hate crimes HAVE increased in New York and Los Angeles (amongst others). By 24 in 2019-2020 in New York, and 8 in Los Angeles. This is HARDLY a sign of a rampant epidemic of hate. The numbers are MINISCULE.

And if this is a result of hatred caused by COVID-19, I would - ONCE MORE - ask you to explain the significant increase (against a MUCH larger background count) of hate crimes against Jews in those cities ?

Absurd ? Unpleasant ? But TRUE. It is not ME that is 'diminishing' these figures; it is elements of the media who are trying to stir up a bush-fire.
There was a 150% increase in hate crimes against Asians in the last year.


From 3 to 24 in n NYC. That is a large increase. It was fairly non existent in 2019. You might be ok with just 24 hate crimes but I’m. It. Also that doesn’t include the number of times people have non criminal racist crap happen to them. Asians have said they get yelled at on the street all the time. It happened before but now it is rampant. That doesn’t get reported as a statistic but if it is happening a lot now.
 

RobF

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And clearly you haven't read ANY of the information I supplied in my previous (ish) post.
Hate crimes HAVE increased in New York and Los Angeles (amongst others). By 24 in 2019-2020 in New York, and 8 in Los Angeles. This is HARDLY a sign of a rampant epidemic of hate. The numbers are MINISCULE.

And if this is a result of hatred caused by COVID-19, I would - ONCE MORE - ask you to explain the significant increase (against a MUCH larger background count) of hate crimes against Jews in those cities ?

Absurd ? Unpleasant ? But TRUE. It is not ME that is 'diminishing' these figures; it is elements of the media who are trying to stir up a bush-fire.
I can't believe you want to dig this hole deeper.

At this point, all you're doing is underlining that you have a clear and at this point undeniable agenda to attempt to diminish these hate crimes.

I did, of course, read your previous post, and the source you linked. Which is why I said it wasn't worth your posting it. As you have a habit of doing, you cherry-picked data, took it out of context, and ignored the content of most of the article you'd linked to. But if you insist, as you apparently do, I'll spell it you for you:

You cited the increased figures in reported and recorded hate crimes - and either through choice or ignorance failed to consider that many hate crimes aren't reported and/or recorded - and immediately sought to diminish them by ignoring the scale of the increase, as you've repeated here, for example, "from three in 2019 to 28 in 2020, a 833 percent increase" to quote. You also ignored that this was in the context of such crimes reducing overall.

You ignored all this, despite the fact that the article, your source, spelled it all out for you:

It revealed that while such crimes in 2020 decreased overall by 7 percent, those targeting Asian people rose by nearly 150 percent.​

“We also know that first-generation immigrants tend to underreport acts of racial discrimination and hate crimes, but the fact that we are talking about change data suggests a meaningful shift that likely means not just greater reporting, but actually greater occurrence,” he said.​

The first spike in anti-Asian hate crimes occurred in March and April last year. However, it occurred alongside a rise in Covid-19 cases and ongoing negative associations of Asian Americans with the virus, the analysis noted.​

A separate study revealed that the use of “China virus” language to refer to the coronavirus, particularly by GOP officials and conservative outlets, has already resulted in a shift in how many people in the U.S. perceive Asian Americans. The significant uptick in discriminatory coronavirus speech that occurred on March 8 — the day Rep. Paul Gosar, R-Ariz., tweeted about the “Wuhan virus,” which coincided with then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s interview the day before on "Fox and Friends" in which he referred to the "China virus" — was followed by a rapid reversal of a decadelong decline in anti-Asian bias.​

Additionally, you've ignored all the information and data provided in other articles others have linked to, the FBI predicting this, the experiences of Asian people themselves...

And rather than raising the increase in anti Semitism as another concern, you've attempted to use it instead to diminish the prejudice and hatred Asians are facing, willfully pretending that you can't conceive that Jewish people and Asian people may face increases in prejudice for both common and separate reasons.

Your repeated futile attempts to diminish and deny a clear problem inflamed by at best careless, and at worst deliberately hateful, rhetoric is truly shameful. All you're offering here is a mix of out-of-context cherry-picked data, willful ignorance, and poor whataboutery.

And why? You still haven't answered that. Are you concerned people might take Asian hate crimes too seriously? Or are you feeling guilty?

Either way, you should be utterly embarrassed.
 

Roofgardener

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I can't believe you want to dig this hole deeper.

At this point, all you're doing is underlining that you have a clear and at this point undeniable agenda to attempt to diminish these hate crimes.

I did, of course, read your previous post, and the source you linked. Which is why I said it wasn't worth your posting it. As you have a habit of doing, you cherry-picked data, took it out of context, and ignored the content of most of the article you'd linked to. But if you insist, as you apparently do, I'll spell it you for you:

You cited the increased figures in reported and recorded hate crimes - and either through choice or ignorance failed to consider that many hate crimes aren't reported and/or recorded - and immediately sought to diminish them by ignoring the scale of the increase, as you've repeated here, for example, "from three in 2019 to 28 in 2020, a 833 percent increase" to quote. You also ignored that this was in the context of such crimes reducing overall.

You ignored all this, despite the fact that the article, your source, spelled it all out for you:

It revealed that while such crimes in 2020 decreased overall by 7 percent, those targeting Asian people rose by nearly 150 percent.​

“We also know that first-generation immigrants tend to underreport acts of racial discrimination and hate crimes, but the fact that we are talking about change data suggests a meaningful shift that likely means not just greater reporting, but actually greater occurrence,” he said.​

The first spike in anti-Asian hate crimes occurred in March and April last year. However, it occurred alongside a rise in Covid-19 cases and ongoing negative associations of Asian Americans with the virus, the analysis noted.​

A separate study revealed that the use of “China virus” language to refer to the coronavirus, particularly by GOP officials and conservative outlets, has already resulted in a shift in how many people in the U.S. perceive Asian Americans. The significant uptick in discriminatory coronavirus speech that occurred on March 8 — the day Rep. Paul Gosar, R-Ariz., tweeted about the “Wuhan virus,” which coincided with then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s interview the day before on "Fox and Friends" in which he referred to the "China virus" — was followed by a rapid reversal of a decadelong decline in anti-Asian bias.​

Additionally, you've ignored all the information and data provided in other articles others have linked to, the FBI predicting this, the experiences of Asian people themselves...

And rather than raising the increase in anti Semitism as another concern, you've attempted to use it instead to diminish the prejudice and hatred Asians are facing, willfully pretending that you can't conceive that Jewish people and Asian people may face increases in prejudice for both common and separate reasons.

Your repeated futile attempts to diminish and deny a clear problem inflamed by at best careless, and at worst deliberately hateful, rhetoric is truly shameful. All you're offering here is a mix of out-of-context cherry-picked data, willful ignorance, and poor whataboutery.

And why? You still haven't answered that. Are you concerned people might take Asian hate crimes too seriously? Or are you feeling guilty?

Either way, you should be utterly embarrassed.
Neither. I'm just saying that the media reports are hysterical. Yes, this should be monitored, but the language that many media outlets are using - highlighting the "150% increase" whilst minimising the low absolute crime numbers - is sensationalising the issue.
 

RobF

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Neither. I'm just saying that the media reports are hysterical. Yes, this should be monitored, but the language that many media outlets are using - highlighting the "150% increase" whilst minimising the low absolute crime numbers - is sensationalising the issue.
This is false.

The article you linked to, for example - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-...s-increased-nearly-150-2020-mostly-n-n1260264 - clearly covers both the scale and the numeric increase in recorded figures, and covers them with nuance and the consideration of both the context and significance of the increases.

You, on the other hand, are repeatedly and consistently ignoring the scale of the increase, ignoring that hate crimes are underreported and recorded, ignoring that the scale of the increase is hence more appropriately seen as representative and that to see them as 'absolute' as you admittedly do is inherently flawed, repeatedly ignoring the experiences of Asian people themselves, and ignoring the the clear context of irresponsible and shameless rhetoric around Covid-19 that has predictably, inevitably, and undeniably contributed to the rise in prejudice and hatred directed towards Asian people.

And now you're adding to that by further attempting to misrepresent the serious issue of these hate crimes as a problem of media sensationalisation.

I think we're at a, "At long last, have you left no sense of decency?" point here.
 

zztop

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I guess it is just a coincidence


Incidents of white supremacist propaganda hit an all-time high in 2020, according to a new report from the Anti-Defamation League's Center on Extremism, which has tracked racist propaganda for decades. anti-Semitic, racist and anti-LGBTQ+ posters, flyers and graffiti were recorded 5,125 times in 2020, according to the report, almost twice the number of incidents recorded in 2019.
 
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Farb

Farb

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I guess it is just a coincidence


Incidents of white supremacist propaganda hit an all-time high in 2020, according to a new report from the Anti-Defamation League's Center on Extremism, which has tracked racist propaganda for decades. anti-Semitic, racist and anti-LGBTQ+ posters, flyers and graffiti were recorded 5,125 times in 2020, according to the report, almost twice the number of incidents recorded in 2019.
Interesting.
Granted, I want to look in to this a little more because I have a couple questions. A few being if white supremacy propaganda increased, was there an increase in other racial supremacy propaganda? Maybe they are related or a cause and effect type of relationship?
Another being if they removed all the hoax white supremacy incidents out of their data and if they are only counting investigated and verified incidents or by just initial reports? Some of these might in the report. I skimmed but didn't dig into it.
 

brandon

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Interesting.
Granted, I want to look in to this a little more because I have a couple questions. A few being like, what if I stretched whataboutism to Vaudevillian lengths?
Another being if calling everything I dislike a hoax went out of style when Trump left office?
Just kidding I’m really just putting my fingers in my ears.
 

Roofgardener

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This is false.

The article you linked to, for example - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-...s-increased-nearly-150-2020-mostly-n-n1260264 - clearly covers both the scale and the numeric increase in recorded figures, and covers them with nuance and the consideration of both the context and significance of the increases.
Yes.. the article WAS nuanced. But their 'headlines' where NOT.

You, on the other hand, are repeatedly and consistently ignoring the scale of the increase, ignoring that hate crimes are underreported and recorded, ignoring that the scale of the increase is hence more appropriately seen as representative and that to see them as 'absolute' as you admittedly do is inherently flawed, repeatedly ignoring the experiences of Asian people themselves, and ignoring the the clear context of irresponsible and shameless rhetoric around Covid-19 that has predictably, inevitably, and undeniably contributed to the rise in prejudice and hatred directed towards Asian people.
And YOU, on the other hand, are ignore the data that I have highlighted.
And now you're adding to that by further attempting to misrepresent the serious issue of these hate crimes as a problem of media sensationalisation.

I think we're at a, "At long last, have you left no sense of decency?" point here.
I think we're at a "RofF is only watching the headlines" moment. I note that you have NOT reacted to the points I have raised.

I am not minimising the (small) increase in obvious targeted hate crimes. What I AM questioning the the narrative in the MSN that this is a big issue.
 

RobF

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Yes.. the article WAS nuanced. But their 'headlines' where NOT.
The headline is accurate and pertinent as already explained.

And YOU, on the other hand, are ignore the data that I have highlighted.
I addressed all of it. Evidently you're ignoring large parts of the posts you're replying to as well as the articles you're linking to.

I think we're at a "RofF is only watching the headlines" moment. I note that you have NOT reacted to the points I have raised.
I quoted the actual article, emphasising the points you ignored, which address and refute your claims.

I am not minimising the (small) increase in obvious targeted hate crimes.
You literally just minimised it in the same breath you claimed you're not.

What I AM questioning the the narrative in the MSN that this is a big issue.
And you're minimising it again. Hate crimes and racism are a big issue, and consequently so is a significant rise in them.

And as for the notion that you're minimising hate crimes, prejudice, racism, and the behaviour which fuels them, because you somehow genuinely think media sensationalism is the more relevant issue here, firstly, and again, it isn't.

Secondly, you chose to address a topic involving genuine, wild, sensationalism to the extent of outright mispresentation on the part of sections of the media, specifically, the reporting covering the news that the publishers of Dr Seuss were withdrawing six of their poorly selling and offensively outdated catalogue, and that eBay also ceased allowing their sale on their platform in line with their policies, by... completely ignoring the sensationalism in the media, and starting a topic titled, 'Book Burning in America'.

So, no, you're clearly and demonstrably not genuinely concerned about media sensationalism.
 

Saintman2884

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Here's a bit about the massage parlor shooter's cult.

Correlation doesn't equal causation. Its an interesting side-story worth considering, but this reply could strike some as some atheist, anti-organized religion website taking cheap shots at low-hanging fruit or inferring that the shooter's religious background had some formulative role in him deciding to assault 3 Atlanta-area Asian-American massage parlors when clearly APD detectives haven't categorically concluded that his was one of his primary reasons.

It wouldn't surprise me, honestly, if bigoted misgyonist feelings towards women or Asian-American women was a main catalyst for this idiot going on a rampage, but last time I looked Don Lemon, Jake Tapper and their CNN brethren aren't trained as homicide detectives nor do they have this transcendent moral absolutist right to lecture millions of Americans what this idiot's true motives were without having the forking actual experts actually being allowed to fully investigate the details surrounding the motives of the murder suspect's murder spree.

What this website also failed to mention was that this same Baptist church the Asian-American massage parlor suspect attended essentially excommunicated or kicked him out of their congregation, and since we're on the topic of "radical feminism"--that term is such a large, broad, kind of reductivist theme that with even mainstream feminists like Gloria Steinem and Catherine Greer have given contradictory views, which seem meandering about what constitutes radical feminism. Many second-wave and even some third-wave feminists have a disdain for sex-positive feminism and that women appearing in graphic, hardcore porn films create this sense of liberation when their just perpetuating the still predominantly male-dominated adult film industry. Some older third-wave feminists have labeled sex-positive feminists as being fake, superficial charlatans who are unwittingly being used as rubes for a patriarchal socio-economic system cloaked under different context.
 

cuddlemonkey

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Correlation doesn't equal causation. Its an interesting side-story worth considering, but this reply could strike some as some atheist, anti-organized religion website taking cheap shots at low-hanging fruit or inferring that the shooter's religious background had some formulative role in him deciding to assault 3 Atlanta-area Asian-American massage parlors when clearly APD detectives haven't categorically concluded that his was one of his primary reasons.

It wouldn't surprise me, honestly, if bigoted misgyonist feelings towards women or Asian-American women was a main catalyst for this idiot going on a rampage, but last time I looked Don Lemon, Jake Tapper and their CNN brethren aren't trained as homicide detectives nor do they have this transcendent moral absolutist right to lecture millions of Americans what this idiot's true motives were without having the forking actual experts actually being allowed to fully investigate the details surrounding the motives of the murder suspect's murder spree.

What this website also failed to mention was that this same Baptist church the Asian-American massage parlor suspect attended essentially excommunicated or kicked him out of their congregation, and since we're on the topic of "radical feminism"--that term is such a large, broad, kind of reductivist theme that with even mainstream feminists like Gloria Steinem and Catherine Greer have given contradictory views, which seem meandering about what constitutes radical feminism. Many second-wave and even some third-wave feminists have a disdain for sex-positive feminism and that women appearing in graphic, hardcore porn films create this sense of liberation when their just perpetuating the still predominantly male-dominated adult film industry. Some older third-wave feminists have labeled sex-positive feminists as being fake, superficial charlatans who are unwittingly being used as rubes for a patriarchal socio-economic system cloaked under different context.
This is the very beginning of the post:

"Crabapple First Baptist Church announced this week that they were going to officially kick Robert Aaron Long, the Georgia spa shooter who murdered eight people, out of their congregation. They explained that despite celebrating his baptism in 2018 (in a now-deleted Facebook post), they could “no longer affirm that he is truly a regenerate believer in Jesus Christ.” In other words, he had betrayed Jesus.

The statement itself seemed fairly comprehensive. The church admitted Long’s family members were part of the congregation. They condemned his actions. They put the blame entirely on him — not the victims or Satan."
 

wardorican

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Neither. I'm just saying that the media reports are hysterical. Yes, this should be monitored, but the language that many media outlets are using - highlighting the "150% increase" whilst minimising the low absolute crime numbers - is sensationalising the issue.
I get your point about large % increases, vs small total numbers.

However, it is a problem, right? It is trending upwards, all while overall hate crime violence was trending downwards.

Also, for most of 2020 people were predominately staying indoors, not riding trains, not riding busses, etc. So, now you'd have to really go out of your way to go looking for an Asian to harm. (see below) And these are only the crimes reported, not harassment, etc.

1616428999182.png


NYC went from 3 cases to 28. If I were Asian and living in NYC, I'd definitely be concerned.

I mean, should we wait until hundreds are attacked? Thousands? Then, and only then we can do something about it?
 

Roofgardener

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I get your point about large % increases, vs small total numbers.

However, it is a problem, right? It is trending upwards, all while overall hate crime violence was trending downwards.

Also, for most of 2020 people were predominately staying indoors, not riding trains, not riding busses, etc. So, now you'd have to really go out of your way to go looking for an Asian to harm. (see below) And these are only the crimes reported, not harassment, etc.

View attachment 4050

NYC went from 3 cases to 28. If I were Asian and living in NYC, I'd definitely be concerned.

I mean, should we wait until hundreds are attacked? Thousands? Then, and only then we can do something about it?
I take your point Wardorican, but.. bear in mind.. 3 cases to 28.. against a backdrop of 1.2 Million 'Asians' living in New York ?

My main reason for commenting, however, was the linkage by the media with Covid-19, which I find highly suspect. There where significant increases in anti-Asian attacks between 2014-2015, and again between 2016-2018.

 

wardorican

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It’s also important to note that the increase in 2020 came at a time people were barely leaving home. Any increase in anything that required 2 people to come in contact with each other during 2020 should be really concerning.
And again, those are just the hate crimes with charges or reported. How much harassments or threatening calls did people get? Or restaurants.
 

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