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Andrus

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Ladies & Gentleman...

I don't like making these types of announcements. I would prefer to work behind the scenes with the mods to eliminate issues, but that obviously isn't working.

We came into this MAP endeavor with a plan and a vision. A lot of time, hard work, and financial resources were put into this endeavor.

While I very much appreciate everyone that has gotten with the program and do enter into civil, meaningful, and good faith discussion, too many here refuse to either get on board, or support that vision, and instead have other ideas concerning their behavior, and it keeps spiraling out of control and setting us back to square one. Obviously, the gentle guidance without consequence method does not work. We now recognize that we are going to have to take a step back (or several) in order to move forward.

However, we will have this one civil political board on the internet where the opposition comes together, even if as a result that means that there is no one left posting on it and the rest are stuck posting on their own segmented boards, if at all. I am well aware of what I am risking here, and I also accept responsibility for allowing it to get out of hand through my own inaction, or lack of enforcement.

From this point on we require civil, and meaningful discourse and in good faith on the MCB. Note I wrote "require, and not "request". Those that are either unwilling or incapable of doing so should avoid posting on this board. There are many sites out there that will welcome your behavior. This is not one of them. Either get with the program and stick with the program, or seek political discussion with the opposition elsewhere

I am requiring members to stop attempting to get under the oppositions skin, stop the snide remarks and sniping, stop posting pointed or vitriolic sarcasm laced responses, and stop triggering and trolling one another. Beta testing is over. Patience with problem members is over. Trying to enlighten the few that are not bright enough to "get it" is over. There will be no more warnings, no more guidance, and no more allowing such violations to slide. Why? Because everyone that is posting here now has been here long enough to know what the expectations of the MCB are.

Sure! Debate your points and argue them passionately, but keep it civil and avoid any of the violations mentioned above. Proof your posts before hitting submit. If your post contains anything triggering or otherwise crosses the lines of acceptability, then edit it until it is up to standards. Ask yourselves... Is it relevant, is it civil, and is it respectful? If your post meets that criteria, only then should you click submit.

News for those of you that like to present their opinions as if fact. If you make an assertion on the MCB and present it as fact, you then must be prepared to back it up. No more entire threads filled with avoiding, dancing around answering, deflecting and telling members to do their own homework when that burden of proof is on the person making the assertion. When you practice such avoidance you lose credibility, leaving us with the perception that you are spreading misinformation. Good Faith means being "honest". That is an expectation on this board. So, if you are stating an opinion, make sure that you express that it is just that - an opinion, rather than inviting such challenges.

Moving forward, any time we see an instance of any of the above violations, we will issue infractions at minimum, and there is a very good chance that we will boot the offending members off of the MCB board. We do have a short list of members that regularly practice violating the rules, and we will skip any infractions with them and go straight to issuing MCB board or site bans. If those that are removed go to their affiliate boards complaining about it, then we will remove them from the site completely. There is zero tolerance for public undermining.

Harsh? Yes! But apparently that is what it is going to take to both get this board on track, as well as keep it that way. History here already shows that when we moderate members, many will observe the rules for a short period of time, yet before long they will revert back to the same behavior that got them moderated to begin with. We will have zero patience with them. Otherwise, If you are a member that encourages division on this board but otherwise observes the rules, you still need to strongly reconsider that approach.

There isn't much of a moderation presence here, but you can bet that in my waking hours I will be spending any spare time that I have reading posts on this board, as well as the others, and enforcing the site rules. I have had plenty of time to analyze nearly every member here. Be aware that "Whatabout so-and-so" is not a defense. Being "unaware" or "oblivious" of the either rules, or that your behavior is unacceptable otherwise, are not acceptable excuses.

We are going to set the table once again, and this time I expect it to remain set properly, as per our vision. Simply put! It's time to begin culling the herd.

Once again, those of you that came here to support our vision for this site and have maintained discipline throughout, I really appreciate you all and hope that you will bare with us, as there will be expected fallout from those that will lose their ability to continue behaving in a manner that we find unacceptable for this board, but in the end hopefully with you as our core we can make this thing work.

-Andrus
 

Richard

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It really isn’t that hard to comply with what is expected if we all just post with respect. Discuss the topic like you would with your mother. Most wouldn’t use words like idiot, stupid, etc. with their wife or mother and they wouldn’t try to browbeat them into submission either. Seek to understand rather than making the discussion all about winning the debate. We may never convince anyone of the “correctness “ of our position, but we may learn why the other person thinks the way they do.
 

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Trumps is gonna win 2020...

How can that be backed up? It hasn't happened yet... Also clearly that statement is an opinion.

While that is a simple opinion that a person expresses as to what they believe to happen pertaining to this board, some could say that was a troll post to just stir the libs when it is not.

Clarification?

Also. I have reported a post or two. I receive a notification that says my reported post has been addressed with a comment from the mod that addressed it... but yet there is no way to know which mod addressed it or ability to communicate with that mod.
 
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Zombiewoof

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Trumps is gonna win 2020...

How can that be backed up? It hasn't happened yet... Also clearly that statement is an opinion.

While that is a simple opinion that a person expresses as to what they believe to happen pertaining to this board, some could say that was a troll post to just stir the libs.

Clarification?

Also. I have reported a post or two. I receive a notification that says my reported post has been addressed with a comment from the mod that addressed it... but yet there is no way to know which mod addressed it or ability to communicate with that mod.
It is impossible to tell if a post is a troll post if it is a simple statement without context. However, if "Trump is gonna win 2020" is said in the context of a post about the 2020 election, it would not be a troll post. The problem with stating that opinion without additional commentary is that there is nothing to explain WHY you believe that. If the same statement is made by itself in the middle of a thread on an unrelated topic, then it is likely to be a troll post. It's not the opinion that is the problem; it's the context.

One other thing that occurred to me after posting this -- attempting to "stir the libs" or stir the conservatives is unacceptable on the MCB. Making a statement obviously intended to inflame or being aggressively confrontational is not just stating an opinion. The expectation on the MCB is civil discussion, so anyone acting in a disrespectful manner will be relegated to the side boards at minimum and are subject to an outright banning.

If you need to speak to a mod about any issue, simply send a PM (start a conversation).
 
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Brandon13

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Once again, those of you that came here to support our vision for this site and have maintained discipline throughout, I really appreciate you all and hope that you will bare with us, as there will be expected fallout from those that will lose their ability to continue behaving in a manner that we find unacceptable for this board, but in the end hopefully with you as our core we can make this thing work.

-Andrus
I think I'm uncomfortable with this bit though, Andrus. :)
 

Dadsdream

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Hi Andrus,
It's 8:30 pm Central Time on the Saturday before Memorial Day.
I've been posting all day.
I just noticed this sticky for the first time.
Sleep on it. Yes. I'll sleep on it.

Happy Memorial Day.
My Uncle Jim C. Kirby
USMC
WWII Guadalcanal, Tinian, Saipan, Guam
 

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brandon

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News for those of you that like to present their opinions as if fact. If you make an assertion on the MCB and present it as fact, you then must be prepared to back it up. No more entire threads filled with avoiding, dancing around answering, deflecting and telling members to do their own homework when that burden of proof is on the person making the assertion. When you practice such avoidance you lose credibility, leaving us with the perception that you are spreading misinformation. Good Faith means being "honest". That is an expectation on this board. So, if you are stating an opinion, make sure that you express that it is just that - an opinion, rather than inviting such challenges.
This right here will fix 90% of the MCB problems.
 

Tony1Sainstfan

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Andrus first of all let me apologize for anything that I might have done to bring this on. I’ve already told Richard that I am totally on board with whatever you guys decide to do here. I know there has been a lot of work effort and expense to bring us this board. I will post mor cautiously moving forward and I hope everyone on both sides does the same. Before any party affiliations we are Americans first and foremost and we should all try to agree to disagree without getting nasty.
 

SaintForLife

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From this point on we require civil, and meaningful discourse and in good faith on the MCB. Note I wrote "require, and not "request". Those that are either unwilling or incapable of doing so should avoid posting on this board. There are many sites out there that will welcome your behavior. This is not one of them. Either get with the program and stick with the program, or seek political discussion with the opposition elsewhere

I am requiring members to stop attempting to get under the oppositions skin, stop the snide remarks and sniping, stop posting pointed or vitriolic sarcasm laced responses, and stop triggering and trolling one another. Beta testing is over. Patience with problem members is over. Trying to enlighten the few that are not bright enough to "get it" is over. There will be no more warnings, no more guidance, and no more allowing such violations to slide. Why? Because everyone that is posting here now has been here long enough to know what the expectations of the MCB are.

Sure! Debate your points and argue them passionately, but keep it civil and avoid any of the violations mentioned above. Proof your posts before hitting submit. If your post contains anything triggering or otherwise crosses the lines of acceptability, then edit it until it is up to standards. Ask yourselves... Is it relevant, is it civil, and is it respectful? If your post meets that criteria, only then should you click submit.
Honest question, does the triggering that you are referring to include those on the left who constantly accuse those on the other side of being racists, bigots, or idiots for either supporting Trump, supporting one of Trump's positions or statements, or questioning a Democratic or media narrative about Trump like the Russia investigation?
 

NoPartyMike

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Honest question, does the triggering that you are referring to include those on the left who constantly accuse those on the other side of being racists, bigots, or idiots for either supporting Trump, supporting one of Trump's positions or statements, or questioning a Democratic or media narrative about Trump like the Russia investigation?
Fair question, considering the moral weight the "left" (as used) puts behind any non-criticism of any Trump administration policy or stance. Maybe that's painting with too broad of a brush. However, if you look at the Covid thread on the other site you can see how not helpful the injection of political to constituent jabs have been in regard to keeping the thread on topic, helpful, informative, and inclusive. Especially, after it was debated as to why it was necessary to do so.
 
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Honest question, does the triggering that you are referring to include those on the left who constantly accuse those on the other side of being racists, bigots, or idiots for either supporting Trump, supporting one of Trump's positions or statements, or questioning a Democratic or media narrative about Trump like the Russia investigation?
Yes! That should be obvious from the statement that I made. The expectation is that members across the political spectrum will keep it civil. To critique or debate either the post or it's content is not an issue unless the the responding member makes it personal by being rude, malicious, or insulting, or otherwise attempts to trigger partisan bickering.

If members cannot keep their responses civil, then the expectation is that they ignore the post and not respond.
 

Tony1Sainstfan

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Yes! That should be obvious from the statement that I made. The expectation is that members across the political spectrum will keep it civil. To critique or debate either the post or it's content is not an issue unless the the responding member makes it personal by being rude, malicious, or insulting, or otherwise attempts to trigger partisan bickering.

If members cannot keep their responses civil, then the expectation is that they ignore the post and not respond.
I wish you guys luck with this. I’m going to do my best moving forward to ignore this board. I will stay on the conservative board but this one has turned into nothing more than the pdb2. See you guys on the other side of November.
 

wardorican

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I think the Pope had a good point about dialogue.

A quote from Pope Francis:
"If there is one word that we should never tire of repeating, it is this: dialogue. We are called to promote a culture of dialogue by every possible means and thus to rebuild the fabric of society. The culture of dialogue entails a true apprenticeship and a discipline that enables us to view others as valid dialogue partners, to respect the foreigner, the immigrant and people from different cultures as worthy of being listened to. Today we urgently need to engage all the members of society in building 'a culture which privileges dialogue as a form of encounter' and in creating 'a means for building consensus and agreement while seeking the goal of a just, responsive and inclusive society'. Peace will be lasting in the measure that we arm our children with the weapons of dialogue, that we teach them to fight the good fight of encounter and negotiation. In this way, we will bequeath to them a culture capable of devising strategies of life, not death, and of inclusion, not exclusion.”
-- Address upon receiving the Charlemagne Prize, May 6, 2016
 

SaintForLife

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Yes! That should be obvious from the statement that I made. The expectation is that members across the political spectrum will keep it civil. To critique or debate either the post or it's content is not an issue unless the the responding member makes it personal by being rude, malicious, or insulting, or otherwise attempts to trigger partisan bickering.

If members cannot keep their responses civil, then the expectation is that they ignore the post and not respond.
I figured that was included in your response, but 3 of the worst offenders of accusing people on the right of being racists, bigots or idiots are still allowed to post here while some posters on the right have already been banned. I just wanted to make that one statement and I understand that it can't be discussed further unless by PM. It seems like uneven enforcement just like it was on the PDB.
 

MapStaff

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I figured that was included in your response, but 3 of the worst offenders of accusing people on the right of being racists, bigots or idiots are still allowed to post here while some posters on the right have already been banned. I just wanted to make that one statement and I understand that it can't be discussed further unless by PM. It seems like uneven enforcement just like it was on the PDB.
Any personally directed accusations or insults should be reported. If, after making the report, there is concern that the matter hasn't been resolved, please follow up with a staff member directly.

If commentary is perceived as an insult in a discussion about the existence and influence of something like racism as it relates to a topic, that will have to be considered within the context of the discussion.

Any time there is a concern, contact a staff member. Keep in mind this site is currently managed and moderated by volunteers, so some patience is requested when problems do require attention.
 

Sledge Hammer

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I figured that was included in your response, but 3 of the worst offenders of accusing people on the right of being racists, bigots or idiots are still allowed to post here while some posters on the right have already been banned. I just wanted to make that one statement and I understand that it can't be discussed further unless by PM. It seems like uneven enforcement just like it was on the PDB.
Any personally directed accusations or insults should be reported. If, after making the report, there is concern that the matter hasn't been resolved, please follow up with a staff member directly.

If commentary is perceived as an insult in a discussion about the existence and influence of something like racism as it relates to a topic, that will have to be considered within the context of the discussion.

Any time there is a concern, contact a staff member. Keep in mind this site is currently managed and moderated by volunteers, so some patience is requested when problems do require attention.
In addition to the guidance from MapStaff, I'd like to make a point about history. Everyone has one. However, we are not interested at this point, about what was done a year ago, a month ago, or even a week ago. If there is a post that breaks the rules of what Andrus has asked for, or is an insult, etc, and it has been since Saturday, May 23rd, report it, and give us time to review it, consider the context, and take the appropriate action.

Everything older than that, let's please move on.
 
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Andrus

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Can some of you do me a favor and stop reporting posts that are weeks old, or made prior to my statement here? Thanks!

Also, While I realize that there are also a few on both sides itching to report your favorite members to hate from the other side, please wait until you have something moderation worthy to report and not report the really knit-picky stuff. I would appreciate that very much!
 

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