Student Loan Forgiveness (MERGED) (1 Viewer)

[el caliente]

Rumors floating around is that today President Biden will be canceling a portion of student loans. That’s fine and all, but what’s your take on it? If it truly is only $10k in forgiveness, is that enough to make much of an impact? Is student loan forgiveness just tax payer funded student loan bribery?

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[B4YOU]

I don’t like this.

Make student loans interest free during enrollment, cap interest at 2%, use % based repayment, and dischargable after 10-15 years for undergraduate loans. The Stafford loan is great and should be the basis for all federal student loans. It’s zero interest while in school. We should increase Pell grant funding. We should exclude loans for private schools and secondary programs.

Is this PPP grant bad, no.

But many people, myself included, made tough choices about undergrad school choice, major, employment, homeownship, grad school, etc. Those choices will affect people the rest of their lives. I went to school on Stafford loans, Pell grants, work study, and side jobs; cut me a 20k check.

I think late GenX to early Millennials got the shaft. I paid off my loans and missed out the Covid Biden bucks.

 

[coldseat]

I think student loan interest payments should be capped immediately. Anybody who's already paid 100% in interest of the initial loan amount should have interest payments capped and all other payments should just got to pay off the principle. Anybody who's paid 200% in interest of the initial loan amount should have the loan forgiven completely. That's just to start, we can then evaluate how that's helping borrowers get on a better footing and make more adjustments in the future is necessary.

I also think that we need to work on making college a lot cheaper or free to attend. I like the idea of funding community colleges and vocational training fully, so that students can have free tuition there. San Antonio is going to start doing that soon with the help of a combination of city funding and private grants for all city residents graduating high school. It's a good leg up to start.

I'm open to more changes, but I think this is a good place to start.

 

[Dragon]

I have followed the discussions and noticed how many complains about how "they paid back their loans and why should others not have to do the same"

Unless someone cuts the proverbial gordian knot then this is going to continue in an endless loop while most of the rest of the western world takes another path ensuring the maximalization of our talented youth by offering free or almost free education.

 

[JimEverett]

I think student loan interest payments should be capped immediately. Anybody who's already paid 100% in interest of the initial loan amount should have interest payments capped and all other payments should just got to pay off the principle. Anybody who's paid 200% in interest of the initial loan amount should have the loan forgiven completely. That's just to start, we can then evaluate how that's helping borrowers get on a better footing and make more adjustments in the future is necessary.

I also think that we need to work on making college a lot cheaper or free to attend. I like the idea of funding community colleges and vocational training fully, so that students can have free tuition there. San Antonio is going to start doing that soon with the help of a combination of city funding and private grants for all city residents graduating high school. It's a good leg up to start.

I'm open to more changes, but I think this is a good place to start.

All student loans or just loans guaranteed by the government?

I have a hard time seeing taxpayers pay banks on loans the banks should not have made - particularly those loans going to private universities and especially for-profit universities.

 

[coldseat]

I have followed the discussions and noticed how many complains about how "they paid back their loans and why should others not have to do the same"

Unless someone cuts the proverbial gordian knot then this is going to continue in an endless loop while most of the rest of the western world takes another path ensuring the maximalization of our talented youth by offering free or almost free education.

Yep. A lot of bitterness out there today. As if people that will qualify for the loan cancelation haven't been paying their student loans and had to make tough decisions around choices about undergrad school choice, major, employment, homeownship, grad school, etc. to pay our student loans.

I actually accelerated paying my student loans off during the pandemic because it was going all to principle. Considering I've paid the government back more than double what I originally borrowed, I guess I'm just grateful to be getting this last little bit of relief in the form debt cancelation. So if others want to be bitter about that, I'm not going to waste my time being concerned about it.

 

[coldseat]

All student loans or just loans guaranteed by the government?

I have a hard time seeing taxpayers pay banks on loans the banks should not have made - particularly those loans going to private universities and especially for-profit universities.

How would taxpayers pay banks based off of what I am proposing?

I guess I'm a little confused. Or where you trying to make another point?

 

[MT15]

The best counter argument I've heard is that it's a handout to the future highest earners in the country.

I think the vast, vast majority of the people who will benefit the most will never be among the future highest earners in this country. Most who will benefit will be teachers, social workers, or other types of public servants who will benefit not only from the $10-20k forgiveness but also from the other reforms that are part of the deal. I’ve only skimmed the summary, but I saw where future payments are capped at 5% of income rather than 10%, and some of the more predatory lending practices are curbed.

I know several people who took out relatively modest loans either for 2-year degrees or who failed to finish their degrees and this will change their lives. It will help the general economy as well, since they can potentially now afford a home sooner or trade in their clunker cars. It’s a good thing, IMO, and it’s not like it isn’t what he campaigned on doing.

 

[JimEverett]

How would taxpayers pay banks based off of what I am proposing?

I guess I'm a little confused. Or where you trying to make another point?

When you say the debt is forgiven - what do you mean? Shareholders of banks have 5th Amendment rights, so the government cannot just come in and say you don't get what you are owed.

 

[MT15]

I don’t like this.

Make student loans interest free during enrollment, cap interest at 2%, use % based repayment, and dischargable after 10-15 years for undergraduate loans. The Stafford loan is great and should be the basis for all federal student loans. It’s zero interest while in school. We should increase Pell grant funding. We should exclude loans for private schools and secondary programs.

Is this PPP grant bad, no.

But many people, myself included, made tough choices about undergrad school choice, major, employment, homeownship, grad school, etc. Those choices will affect people the rest of their lives. I went to school on Stafford loans, Pell grants, work study, and side jobs; cut me a 20k check.

I think late GenX to early Millennials got the shaft. I paid off my loans and missed out the Covid Biden bucks.

The best argument against the bitterness felt is this analogy I heard from someone else who paid off their loans:

If they came up with a cure for a disease that had claimed a loved one’s life, should people be pissed off that the current sufferers aren’t going to die? Hopefully people would be happy for the current sufferers and glad they got a fresh chance.

This said as a person who paid off undergrad and grad school loans for myself and one of my children whose chosen profession didn’t pay enough to realistically pay off their loans. Just paid off my child’s loans 2 years ago.

This is a good program, it seems like it addresses some of the more predatory practices. It will pay off society in the long run, IMO.

 

[coldseat]

When you say the debt is forgiven - what do you mean? Shareholders of banks have 5th Amendment rights, so the government cannot just come in and say you don't get what you are owed.

I think the Congress could pass a law and it could be signed by the President that would exactly say that and it would be totally legal. I guess I'm not understanding your point.

Regardless, we're talking about shareholders and banks making at lest 200% profit on an original loan amount, before any type of forgiveness took place with my proposal. I' don't think they'd be in any place to complain.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

How long before the lawsuits are filed?

 

[JimEverett]

I think the Congress could pass a law and it could be signed by the President that would exactly say that and it would be totally legal. I guess I'm not understanding your point.

Regardless, we're talking about shareholders and banks making at lest 200% profit on an original loan amount, before any type of forgiveness took place with my proposal. I' don't think they'd be in any place to complain.

Congress cannot pass a law that violates the Constitution. The government cannot just take property without giving compensation - it is in the 5th Amendment. The promissory note has value and the terms should be clear. If such a law were passed the taxpayers would be paying those banks.

 

[B4YOU]

The best argument against the bitterness felt is this analogy I heard from someone else who paid off their loans:

If they came up with a cure for a disease that had claimed a loved one’s life, should people be pissed off that the current sufferers aren’t going to die? Hopefully people would be happy for the current sufferers and glad they got a fresh chance.

This said as a person who paid off undergrad and grad school loans for myself and one of my children whose chosen profession didn’t pay enough to realistically pay off their loans. Just paid off my child’s loans 2 years ago.

This is a good program, it seems like it addresses some of the more predatory practices. It will pay off society in the long run, IMO.

I’m 100% for lowering the cost of college and reasonable government support. A loan forgiveness without a plan to lower current and future cost will just lead to rising costs that now factor in loan forgiveness. The plan should be to raise taxes to lower individual costs, subsidize student housing, and let loans be discharged. Winning a generational lottery, 20k loan forgiveness, while the government has zero long term plans is a crap outcome.

Your analogy makes zero sense. This isn’t some scientific breakthrough or regulations like implementing seat belts. Governments have handed out cash since their existence. This is a generational handout because boomers are finally dying, genx was too small a group to get political change, and the millennial/genz cohort is large enough to impact politics.

I’m literally suggesting discharging loans after 10 years, an amount that may well exceed 20k. I want a plan not just a political payout.

 

[coldseat]

Congress cannot pass a law that violates the Constitution. The government cannot just take property without giving compensation - it is in the 5th Amendment. The promissory note has value and the terms should be clear. If such a law were passed the taxpayers would be paying those banks.

They wouldn't be taking any property from anybody. They would be capping how much a bank can make off of a loan, that would apply to any current student loan. I think that falls well within their scope of power.

I'm also not sure your actually correct in your statement. Congress and governments seize private property for many reasons that I've seen.

 

[superchuck500]

I’m okay with it - though I don’t think it addresses the real problem.

As a legal matter, there is already quite a bit of skepticism that the program could pass legal challenge. Though standing is a potential hurdle for would-be challengers.

 

[JimEverett]

They wouldn't be taking any property from anybody. They would be capping how much a bank can make off of a loan, that would apply to any current student loan. I think that falls well within their scope of power.

I'm also not sure your actually correct in your statement. Congress and governments seize private property for many reasons that I've seen.

Of course a promissory note is property - the same way a good is property. The same way inventory is a property or unpaid invoices are property . . . . Come on.

The government can seize property in criminal cases after due process has been afforded. In the civil context the government has to pay for any property it seizes, which is what you would have in your scenario.

 

[coldseat]

Of course a promissory note is property - the same way a good is property. The same way inventory is a property or unpaid invoices are property . . . . Come on.

The government can seize property in criminal cases after due process has been afforded. In the civil context the government has to pay for any property it seizes, which is what you would have in your scenario.

I don't think that's accurate, but if say so. Not something I've really looked into. Just what I think would be a fair course of action given the current situation.

I'm sure it could be done in a legal way, if so desired. I also think it would help a lot. I wasn't really trying to argue the legal technicalities of it.

 

[J-DONK]

I think the vast, vast majority of the people who will benefit the most will never be among the future highest earners in this country. Most who will benefit will be teachers, social workers, or other types of public servants who will benefit not only from the $10-20k forgiveness but also from the other reforms that are part of the deal. I’ve only skimmed the summary, but I saw where future payments are capped at 5% of income rather than 10%, and some of the more predatory lending practices are curbed.

I know several people who took out relatively modest loans either for 2-year degrees or who failed to finish their degrees and this will change their lives. It will help the general economy as well, since they can potentially now afford a home sooner or trade in their clunker cars. It’s a good thing, IMO, and it’s not like it isn’t what he campaigned on doing.

I don't actually hold this opinion, but this is not a great counter point. The talking point is valid in the sense that if you pool all college grads, and all non college grads. The college grads are going to earn a massive amount more over their lifetime.

Those who don't finish college usually dropout in the first year? I'm not sure how much debt they acquire in that scenario.

There is also the issue of inflationary college tuition. I've heard the cause is lack of state funding, and also bloated administrative budgets. At the heart of it, I believe is the corporatization of college. After all, why does Harvard, Texas, or Stanford with their massive endowments make anyone who qualifies pay?

I personally believe that college should be free for anyone who wants to attend. The cost of the most expensive way to accomplish tuition payment is around 60 billion a year. It's a loss for America for every artist, engineer, or teacher that ends up doing some minimal job far below their talents.