Student Loan Forgiveness (MERGED) (1 Viewer)

[el caliente]

Rumors floating around is that today President Biden will be canceling a portion of student loans. That’s fine and all, but what’s your take on it? If it truly is only $10k in forgiveness, is that enough to make much of an impact? Is student loan forgiveness just tax payer funded student loan bribery?

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Farb]

The 80k IRS agents is a total lie, you know that right?

The 80k hires are over 10 years, the IRS will lose about 60k employees to retirement within the next 5 years. R administrations had cut IRS funding to the point that they cannot really enforce anymore so they are adding about 20k employees which will bring them up to previous staffing levels. Not all the hires are agents, only a tiny fraction are. Most of the hires will be IT, and the rest are distributed throughout the agency.

Your sources are lying to you, sigh, again.

Right, the required staffing levels to maintain their current 'production' was 85K. So are you saying they have released new numbers on exactly how many over the next 5 years? If they have not, since they have not, their previous request for 85K new agents is still the number they are working off of.
I am sure you believe that only the rich will be the target for more revenue to off set the 80 billion dollar increase the bureaucratic machine. MSNBC told you that I am sure. Give it a few years on this and I will be correct again.

Again, sigh.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Right, the required staffing levels to maintain their current 'production' was 85K. So are you saying they have released new numbers on exactly how many over the next 5 years? If they have not, since they have not, their previous request for 85K new agents is still the number they are working off of.
I am sure you believe that only the rich will be the target for more revenue to off set the 80 billion dollar increase the bureaucratic machine. MSNBC told you that I am sure. Give it a few years on this and I will be correct again.

Again, sigh.

We all know you thought they were hiring 80k IRS as soon as possible. I am betting you did not research that the 80k was over a 10 year period. you can try to talk your way out of it, but we all know what you were parroting.

 

[Farb]

I'll help you out on this one. Forget the PPP loan comparison and just compare student loan debt forgiveness to any other expenditure by the feds including stuff I already mentioned like farm subsidies or the trillions we sunk into Middle Eastern wars. Or any and all federal aid that goes to poor southern states that barely tow the line in terms of benefit and productivity to the country as a whole.

Anyway... the 'what caused the need for PPP loans' and '80k IRS agents' are straight out of the Benny Shapiro script. Come on, man. We already have SFL for that.

Ok. Cool. So what will stop this from happening in the future again? Right now, the education system (we all know how I feel about that) is a complete failure and the loan are trash.
If you want to pass a law saying a person can not take out a loan for college until they are 25, we can talk. We won't though will we? Why not?
Believe it or not, I have a conspiracy theory on that too, give it 6 months and it will be fact.

And comparing government spending, and government is subsidies to the government subsidizing individual bad decision does not add up in a real world and it make for a really bad argument in my opinion. Unless, and you probably do, consider being a farmer a bad personal decision.

How is it benny shapiro to ask and have a discussion about the ridiculous and dishonest comparison of the PPP grant and a student loan in a thread about this very thing?

Let us not even discuss the wonderful effect pumping more unnatural money into the system is going to have on Biden's inflation problem. Or the fact that was and very clearly a way for the Dems to buy votes for the midterm. Will you at least admit that is at least in part a reason why they are doing this?

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Ok. Cool. So what will stop this from happening in the future again? Right now, the education system (we all know how I feel about that) is a complete failure and the loan are trash.
If you want to pass a law saying a person can not take out a loan for college until they are 25, we can talk. We won't though will we? Why not?
Believe it or not, I have a conspiracy theory on that too, give it 6 months and it will be fact.

And comparing government spending, and government is subsidies to the government subsidizing individual bad decision does not add up in a real world and it make for a really bad argument in my opinion. Unless, and you probably do, consider being a farmer a bad personal decision.

How is it benny shapiro to ask and have a discussion about the ridiculous and dishonest comparison of the PPP grant and a student loan in a thread about this very thing?

Let us not even discuss the wonderful effect pumping more unnatural money into the system is going to have on Biden's inflation problem. Or the fact that was and very clearly a way for the Dems to buy votes for the midterm. Will you at least admit that is at least in part a reason why they are doing this?

I'd ike some examples of Covservatives changing voting parties over this.

 

[Farb]

Because they wanted the money..
Do you think it is fair that some people got paid for not working and others had to come to work to get paid? Thats the same argument that people are using against the Student loan forgiveness... Am i wrong?

They wanted the money for what? No need to dance around it.
They wanted the money to get a degree that they were told would make them more money in the long run. They were lied to by the universities. When they graduated as a gender studies major, the money there were promised what not there. Instead of working on the actual problem, they just use a public funded bail out for the universities.

now if the colleges paid the money to finance the bail out, I would have zero problem with it. To ask me to bail out a person that made bad personal fininical decision, you will get push back. This is not a partisian issue. I know a lot of liberals (not left but liberals) that are also ticked off.

As far as the being paid to not work vs working, I am not following your point. Can you elaborate?

 

[Farb]

Did you REALLY think he looked into that before he posted? lol.. He's just parroting what he has heard...

You really need to read more.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

Ok. Cool. So what will stop this from happening in the future again?

I don't disagree and there are other issues that must be addressed (as I said earlier in the thread) but that doesn't mean forgiving debt is a bad idea.

And comparing government spending, and government is subsidies to the government subsidizing individual bad decision does not add up in a real world and it make for a really bad argument in my opinion. Unless, and you probably do, consider being a farmer a bad personal decision.

The comparison is perfectly fine. All of it is taxpayer money being spent for purposes the government deems useful/necessary. And I'm sure plenty of farmers make bad personal decision in terms of managing their farms -- it's not merely the choice of being a farmer. And, again, the ludicrous military defense budget is the bigger elephant in the room. If Russia's laughable invasion of the Ukraine has shown us anything it's that at least one of the other major powers in the world has a mediocre to poor conventional army. China's might be better... who can say? But it calls into question why we need to spend so much on conventional weaponry when the nuclear deterrent exists.

How is it benny shapiro to ask and have a discussion about the ridiculous and dishonest comparison of the PPP grant and a student loan in a thread about this very thing?

Because it's a cliche talking point of the right. And it's also not a dishonest comparison -- the right just tries to paint it as such by leveraging the tired anti-COVID measures argument. From you I expect more creativity.

Let us not even discuss the wonderful effect pumping more unnatural money into the system is going to have on Biden's inflation problem. Or the fact that was and very clearly a way for the Dems to buy votes for the midterm. Will you at least admit that is at least in part a reason why they are doing this?

How much 'unnatural' money is pumped into Alabama on a daily basis to keep it from effectively becoming a third world country? Will I admit the program is meant to appeal to voters? Sure. Welcome to politics, you will not find anyone in it who is not willing to pander or pork barrel their way to popularity with the masses.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

They wanted the money for what? No need to dance around it.
They wanted the money to get a degree that they were told would make them more money in the long run. They were lied to by the universities. When they graduated as a gender studies major, the money there were promised what not there. Instead of working on the actual problem, they just use a public funded bail out for the universities.

now if the colleges paid the money to finance the bail out, I would have zero problem with it. To ask me to bail out a person that made bad personal fininical decision, you will get push back. This is not a partisian issue. I know a lot of liberals (not left but liberals) that are also ticked off.

As far as the being paid to not work vs working, I am not following your point. Can you elaborate?

If the student loans are a hand out, so was the PPP

Also, you do realize majority of colleges in the US are public universities (over 70%). Asking them to help with the bail out would just mean the gov't moving money around anyway.. Gv't give more money to the university, then the university turn around and give it back to the gov't?

If i paid my student loan off, then later they offered forgiveness, i am mad because its not fair.
If i worked during the pandemic with no time off, but the company my neighbor worked for sent them home, got a PPP loan and pad them while they were off or for working much reduced hours, i am mad because its not fair....

 

[coldseat]

They wanted the money for what? No need to dance around it.
They wanted the money to get a degree that they were told would make them more money in the long run. They were lied to by the universities. When they graduated as a gender studies major, the money there were promised what not there. Instead of working on the actual problem, they just use a public funded bail out for the universities.

now if the colleges paid the money to finance the bail out, I would have zero problem with it. To ask me to bail out a person that made bad personal fininical decision, you will get push back. This is not a partisian issue. I know a lot of liberals (not left but liberals) that are also ticked off.

As far as the being paid to not work vs working, I am not following your point. Can you elaborate?

This is the only major offered at all colleges now, according to Republicans.

Some actual facts:

Cultural & Gender Studies | Data USA

In 2021, the locations with the highest concentration of Cultural & Gender Studies degree recipients are Columbia, MO, Los Angeles, CA, and New York, NY. In 2021, the locations with a relatively high number of Cultural & Gender Studies degree recipients are New Town, ND, Brunswick, ME, and...

datausa.io

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

This is the only major offered at all colleges now, according to Republicans.

Some actual facts:

Cultural & Gender Studies | Data USA

In 2021, the locations with the highest concentration of Cultural & Gender Studies degree recipients are Columbia, MO, Los Angeles, CA, and New York, NY. In 2021, the locations with a relatively high number of Cultural & Gender Studies degree recipients are New Town, ND, Brunswick, ME, and...

datausa.io

i cannot count how many times i've seen this kind of thing referenced.. I'll give them one thing, they are consistant...

 

[coldseat]

i cannot count how many times i've seen this kind of thing referenced.. I'll give them one thing, they are consistant...

Yes they are. This is the real reason they hate gender studies major. It tracks with their other anti-woman beliefs/policies.

 

[MT15]

Ok. Cool. So what will stop this from happening in the future again? Right now, the education system (we all know how I feel about that) is a complete failure and the loan are trash.
If you want to pass a law saying a person can not take out a loan for college until they are 25, we can talk. We won't though will we? Why not?
Believe it or not, I have a conspiracy theory on that too, give it 6 months and it will be fact.

And comparing government spending, and government is subsidies to the government subsidizing individual bad decision does not add up in a real world and it make for a really bad argument in my opinion. Unless, and you probably do, consider being a farmer a bad personal decision.

How is it benny shapiro to ask and have a discussion about the ridiculous and dishonest comparison of the PPP grant and a student loan in a thread about this very thing?

Let us not even discuss the wonderful effect pumping more unnatural money into the system is going to have on Biden's inflation problem. Or the fact that was and very clearly a way for the Dems to buy votes for the midterm. Will you at least admit that is at least in part a reason why they are doing this?

Biden forgiving 10k in student loan debt was a campaign promise. So no it’s not a “fact” that this is clearly a way to buy votes, unless you consider following through on what you promise during a campaign to be “buying” votes.

We get it, most of this money is going to people on the lower end of the income spectrum, and Rs hate, hate, hate that. Bailing out billion dollar corporations for bad decisions is what they do. (I’m not saying that sometimes we don’t need to bail out corporations, because we do, it’s just funny how Rs can see the value there, but when it’s individuals, they just lose their shirt.)

 

[el caliente]

This probably the hill for him to die on, but whatever will get him out of office.

Side note, my boss lives a few houses down from Ted, and in July we were at his house swimming. I come out the house and I see Ted throwing the baseball with his daughter. Man, I’m not sure who was teaching who how to throw a baseball for the first time.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

I have on numerous occasions (if I thought it would actually be read) considered writing a letter to George W. Bush asking him to run in the GOP primary for the U.S. Senate in Texas against Cruz. He might stand a decent chance of winning. An unorthodox move for sure but we are living in very unorthodox political times.

 

[el caliente]

I have on numerous occasions (if I thought it would actually be read) considered writing a letter to George W. Bush asking him to run in the GOP primary for the U.S. Senate in Texas against Cruz. He might stand a decent chance of winning. An unorthodox move for sure but we are living in very unorthodox political times.

Agreed. I love it here in Texas, and don’t have much to complain about other than my HOA, so why we can’t elect better people is beyond me. Sure we have some good politicians, but the bad/crazy ones are really bad/crazy.

I wish we had more Dan Crenshaws, and fewer Ted Cruzs.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

I am more positive than negative on Crenshaw but he still engages in a bit too much culture war hand-wringing for my tastes. I get the sense he is being compelled to say some of this stuff to appeal to voters who would otherwise primary him. He's one of very few current Republicans who actually presents a vision/positive narrative as opposed to merely engaging in grievance politics.

I often wonder if his choice to deliver his 2020 GOP Convention speech from a naval yard/battleship as opposed to inappropriately using the White House like Trump did was a conscious one.

 

[Farb]

I don't disagree and there are other issues that must be addressed (as I said earlier in the thread) but that doesn't mean forgiving debt is a bad idea.



The comparison is perfectly fine. All of it is taxpayer money being spent for purposes the government deems useful/necessary. And I'm sure plenty of farmers make bad personal decision in terms of managing their farms -- it's not merely the choice of being a farmer. And, again, the ludicrous military defense budget is the bigger elephant in the room. If Russia's laughable invasion of the Ukraine has shown us anything it's that at least one of the other major powers in the world has a mediocre to poor conventional army. China's might be better... who can say? But it calls into question why we need to spend so much on conventional weaponry when the nuclear deterrent exists.



Because it's a cliche talking point of the right. And it's also not a dishonest comparison -- the right just tries to paint it as such by leveraging the tired anti-COVID measures argument. From you I expect more creativity.



How much 'unnatural' money is pumped into Alabama on a daily basis to keep it from effectively becoming a third world country? Will I admit the program is meant to appeal to voters? Sure. Welcome to politics, you will not find anyone in it who is not willing to pander or pork barrel their way to popularity with the masses.

I do like how you accuse of using Right wing talking points and then dump out DNC talking points, but I am sure you can't see that.

If you want to discuss ending a lot of the federal programs that pump money into poor states, I would love to have that discussion and I would be on board. The other side of that conversation that you don't want to have it the cutting of several social programs in poor states which I am probably OK with for the most part. So can we now both agree that buying votes using tax payer money to bail out those that bought an over priced and under utilized commodity in order to make more money down the road is a bad idea and just factually unfair to those tax payers that made solid financial decisions?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereks...-who-benefits-most-and-least/?sh=7a0e75906413

"Favors high-income Americans: Despite the $125,000 income cap, research shows the White House plan still slightly favors higher-income Americans: Analysis of a $10,000 blanket relief program published Tuesday by the Penn Wharton Budget Model found 69.79% of overall debt forgiveness would go to the top 60% of Americans by income, while individuals who make between $82,400 and $141,096—placing them between the 60th and 80th percentile—would receive the greatest share of overall forgiveness, at 28.1%, though the additional relief for Pell grant recipients should bring further benefit to lower-income borrowers.
Generally, higher-earning Americans hold more student loan debt, with the top 10% of individuals holding 17.4% of all debt compared to 13.8% for the bottom 20% of earners, according to the most recent installment of the Federal Reserve’s Survey of Consumer Finances in 2019."

Why bring the defense budget into the debate? The defense is for all american's, this is specifically for certain americans and will be paid by the other americans. Almost as if punishment. Tell me again how the DNC is the party of the working and common man? Do you want to have a discussion on cutting back spending on defense? I am all for it. Matter of fact, I am fairly certain we can cut about 40% of our budget and be better for it.

If you are trying to convince me that is a good and fair federal overreach, you are doing a very poor job.

 

[Farb]

Biden forgiving 10k in student loan debt was a campaign promise. So no it’s not a “fact” that this is clearly a way to buy votes, unless you consider following through on what you promise during a campaign to be “buying” votes.

We get it, most of this money is going to people on the lower end of the income spectrum, and Rs hate, hate, hate that. Bailing out billion dollar corporations for bad decisions is what they do. (I’m not saying that sometimes we don’t need to bail out corporations, because we do, it’s just funny how Rs can see the value there, but when it’s individuals, they just lose their shirt.)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereks...-who-benefits-most-and-least/?sh=7a0e75906413
Favors high-income Americans: Despite the $125,000 income cap, research shows the White House plan still slightly favors higher-income Americans: Analysis of a $10,000 blanket relief program published Tuesday by the Penn Wharton Budget Model found 69.79% of overall debt forgiveness would go to the top 60% of Americans by income, while individuals who make between $82,400 and $141,096—placing them between the 60th and 80th percentile—would receive the greatest share of overall forgiveness, at 28.1%, though the additional relief for Pell grant recipients should bring further benefit to lower-income borrowers.
Generally, higher-earning Americans hold more student loan debt, with the top 10% of individuals holding 17.4% of all debt compared to 13.8% for the bottom 20% of earners, according to the most recent installment of the Federal Reserve’s Survey of Consumer Finances in 2019."

Did Joy Reid on MSNBC tell you it helps poor struggling just out of college kids? You might want to do some research instead of just accepting what your sources tell you. But, as usual, the DNC loves to pretend it is helping the poor while really pumping up its donors.

And yes, I do consider that buying votes.