2024 GOP Presidential Race (formerly Can DeSantis overcome Trump?) (6 Viewers)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Many of Trump's endorsed candidates did not do well on Nov. 8th.
*
Gov. Ron DeSantis DID do well.
He won convincingly.
Yet in this OP's opinion, Donald Trump is an egomaniac who is seemingly incapable of putting "Party over Self"
Trump has ZERO chance of being elected our next president.
In my opinion, if Trump would just shut up and go away (fat chance of that)...but "if" Trump did that, Gov. Ron DeSantis would have a CHANCE to be a formidable candidate for President in 2024.
Here is an interesting article on this topic...

Donald Trump warns Ron DeSantis against 2024 presidential bid as Republican rising star wins big

Donald Trump has warned Florida's Governor Ron DeSantis against running for president in 2024, saying doing so would harm the Republican Party.

www.scotsman.com

*
*
What do any of you think re. Trump vs DeSantis?

 

[MT15]

Trump states that Ron DeSantis is unelectable.
I think he should look at reality and realize that with his Jan 6 baggage, Stormy Daniels baggage and so much more....HE....Donald Trump is unelectable.
For half a year I've heard DeSantis will officially enter the race "by May"
May is slipping away.
Possibly he'll announce tomorrow or surely before the weekend?

I saw an interesting tweet today that said the FL Senate hasn’t yet sent the bill that clears the way for him to run for federal office to his desk for him to sign. I don’t know if that’s true or not. He cannot legally run without the law being changed, so that could have something to do with it. Even though he’s been largely absent from FL anyway doing campaign events in other states. Breaking the spirit of the law, if not the letter of the law.

If I were a citizen of FL, I would have some pointed questions for any representatives who voted to allow DeSantis to run for President during the first year of his term. Is that in the best interests of the people they are supposed to be representing? I think it’s in the best interests of Ron, and that’s about it.

 

[Optimus Prime]

My perspective on these issues isn’t too different from what the very right-wing Bill Maher opined on about on his “Real Talk” show about a decade ago and got called a bigot to his face by Ben Affleck and got raked over the coals by certain parts of the MSM.

Very right wing?

I've been watching Bill Maher off and on since his politically Incorrect days. and there are things I disagree with him on, some very strongly disagree, but in way shape or form would I ever describe him as 'very right wing'

 

[MT15]

Depends on what the poll is asking: is the question general or more specific? Not all pro-lifers, BTW, supported complete abolition of abortion, some just wanted to ban late-term abortions, or leave open options for cases of rape, incest, or sexual assault. That’s why there’s been a backlash in even red states with these referendums because they feel the GOP’s position has gone even further then what they supported or initially intended. Some pro-lifers are more pragmatic or realistic about abortion than pro-life zealots.

It’s not some morally absolutist situation. Even I’ve known that from the beginning and my own position on abortion is that I’m kind of a default pro-choice.

You are posting as if I said these things (that all pro-lifers believe the same, that the issue isn’t absolute in a moral sense) and you’re here to enlighten me, while ignoring the simple question I asked you in an attempt to explain my point. So now I don’t know if you got my point or not. Just in case you were wondering why you get pushback from me sometimes. It’s difficult to determine what your intentions are when I read a post like this because of the tone and the content, which seems tangential to what we were talking about.

Trying one more time:

You said opinions on abortion access was an even split in this country and cited a Gallup poll. You’re correct in acknowledging that polls can get almost any result they set out to get by wording the questions in different ways.

I said I believe it’s not evenly split, and a good indication of that is the way all state referendums have gone to date, which have all upheld the idea that a majority want abortion to be available. It’s been about 60-40, IIRC, pretty consistently. Certain situations (rape, incest, medical complications) are more like 80-20 according to polls I have seen in the past.

That’s the gist of it. I don’t know if you basically agree or not, but we seem to be talking past each other.

 

[Saintman2884]

Very right wing?

I've been watching Bill Maher off and on since his politically Incorrect days. and there are things I disagree with him on, some very strongly disagree, but in way shape or form would I ever describe him as 'very right wing'

I was being facetious and ironic, since Maher has a tendency to piss off some liberals and talking heads on the left for calling out or criticizing their “supposed” annoying, nuanced PC bullshirt or perceived double standards.

Some left-wingers have complained about Maher biting the hand that feeds him, sometimes and Maher, IMHO, does have a bit of a contrarian streak.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

I saw an interesting tweet today that said the FL Senate hasn’t yet sent the bill that clears the way for him to run for federal office to his desk for him to sign. I don’t know if that’s true or not. He cannot legally run without the law being changed, so that could have something to do with it. Even though he’s been largely absent from FL anyway doing campaign events in other states. Breaking the spirit of the law, if not the letter of the law.

If I were a citizen of FL, I would have some pointed questions for any representatives who voted to allow DeSantis to run for President during the first year of his term. Is that in the best interests of the people they are supposed to be representing? I think it’s in the best interests of Ron, and that’s about it.

*

Florida GOP lawmakers clear path for DeSantis to run for president without resigning | CNN Politics

Florida lawmakers gave final passage Friday to a measure that clears a path for Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis to run for president without resigning from his current job.

www.cnn.com

 

[Saintman2884]

You are posting as if I said these things (that all pro-lifers believe the same, that the issue isn’t absolute in a moral sense) and you’re here to enlighten me, while ignoring the simple question I asked you in an attempt to explain my point. So now I don’t know if you got my point or not. Just in case you were wondering why you get pushback from me sometimes. It’s difficult to determine what your intentions are when I read a post like this because of the tone and the content, which seems tangential to what we were talking about.

Trying one more time:

You said opinions on abortion access was an even split in this country and cited a Gallup poll. You’re correct in acknowledging that polls can get almost any result they set out to get by wording the questions in different ways.

I said I believe it’s not evenly split, and a good indication of that is the way all state referendums have gone to date, which have all upheld the idea that a majority want abortion to be available. It’s been about 60-40, IIRC, pretty consistently. Certain situations (rape, incest, medical complications) are more like 80-20 according to polls I have seen in the past.

That’s the gist of it. I don’t know if you basically agree or not, but we seem to be talking past each other.

Sometimes, I’ve gotten the impression you see some pro-lifers as a “either/or” collective religious/zealot hive-mind belief system because of your staunch support of abortion or pro-choice, some of your comments came across to me, and as lacking nuance when in reality it’s not really that simple. The “supposed” harsh tone and texture of a few of your statements in past threads gave me the wrong impression or sense and for that, I apologize for that error in judgment.

 

[Saintman2884]

Blah. No one is talking about the producer here, I am talking about the audience. This J Law/Weinstein thing is meh.

Raise your hand if you want to see that movie.

Where's the money gonna come from? Again, it's not about guts, it is about the AUDIENCE!!!!

You do know he was threatened with a religious fatwa by Iranian Ayatollah and had to live in hiding for over a decade and had to be guarded at all times!!

Yes, there is an audience in that there is a literary figure being threatened and attacked due to his blasphemous depiction of Islam and being threatened as a heretic, taking on an Islamic theocratic regime. Freedom of speech vs. hate speech dynamic. Intellectualism vs. conformist, fanatical interpretations of religious texts/dogmas. I call bullshirt that there wouldn’t be a large audience for that series. They did it with the Republic of Gilead, they can find one with Salman Rushdie’s experiences dealing with radical, fundamentalist Islam and having HIS forkING LIFE THREATENED. Maybe under different contexts, but I disagree about not being an audience. I could see a movie, at least, being made about his experiences.

You don’t care or aren’t the least bit interested about all those supposed rumors surrounding how Jennifer Lawrence getting a role that would define her career and make her a star. Just because you don’t want to know or don’t care doesn’t mean some people are wrong that there isn’t a story there. Harvey Weinstein’s litany of sexual abuse, harassment, bullying, rape and repeated, continual cover-ups was the origin point for the #Metoo movement exploding into the public consciousness in 2017.

 

[MT15]

Sometimes, I’ve gotten the impression you see some pro-lifers as a “either/or” collective religious/zealot hive-mind belief system because of your staunch support of abortion or pro-choice, some of your comments came across to me, and as lacking nuance when in reality it’s not really that simple. The “supposed” harsh tone and texture of a few of your statements in past threads gave me the wrong impression or sense and for that, I apologize for that error in judgment.

I do have some strong beliefs on this subject - as in the government has no place in medical decisions between a doctor and her patient. That’s an absolute, to me.

Otherwise, I think Roe was a really good compromise and I understand that - absent mitigating circumstances like rape, incest, medical hazards - viability is a good dividing line. If the fetus would be viable, then there must be a good reason for the abortion (fetal catastrophic abnormality, etc). Even then, if it’s for the mother‘s health, and the baby would be viable - they will save the baby. If I hear one more man say “democrats want abortion up to the day of birth or beyond” I may just stroke out. And it’s not just Trump saying it. Mike Pence said it just the other day. It’s a lie, a malignant, deliberate lie.

The anti-abortionists have lied about this for so long that I am fairly well disgusted with them. That’s my problem, and I don’t mean to paint with a broad brush, so I’m sorry about that.

My harsh tone is definitely there as I see state after state ignore women’s health and safety to ban abortions with no exceptions. And even when they make exceptions they are a sham. The woman must be at death‘s door, or must prove they were raped by jumping through legal hoops. Women are being harmed, families are being harmed and the R party just doesn’t give a shirt about that.

 

[MT15]

*

Florida GOP lawmakers clear path for DeSantis to run for president without resigning | CNN Politics

Florida lawmakers gave final passage Friday to a measure that clears a path for Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis to run for president without resigning from his current job.

www.cnn.com

My understanding is that while they have passed it, they haven’t sent it over to him to sign.

 

[Saintman2884]

I do have some strong beliefs on this subject - as in the government has no place in medical decisions between a doctor and her patient. That’s an absolute, to me.

Otherwise, I think Roe was a really good compromise and I understand that - absent mitigating circumstances like rape, incest, medical hazards - viability is a good dividing line. If the fetus would be viable, then there must be a good reason for the abortion (fetal catastrophic abnormality, etc). Even then, if it’s for the mother‘s health, and the baby would be viable - they will save the baby. If I hear one more man say “democrats want abortion up to the day of birth or beyond” I may just stroke out. And it’s not just Trump saying it. Mike Pence said it just the other day. It’s a lie, a malignant, deliberate lie.

The anti-abortionists have lied about this for so long that I am fairly well disgusted with them. That’s my problem, and I don’t mean to paint with a broad brush, so I’m sorry about that.

My harsh tone is definitely there as I see state after state ignore women’s health and safety to ban abortions with no exceptions. And even when they make exceptions they are a sham. The woman must be at death‘s door, or must prove they were raped by jumping through legal hoops. Women are being harmed, families are being harmed and the R party just doesn’t give a shirt about that.

In regards to your first paragraph, for some pro-lifers, it’s cases of abortion where the reasons aren’t medical, or due to rape, incest, etc, it’s “I don’t want this baby because it’ll cost me that job, or it’ll ruin my once care-free, uncomplicated life, or my life will be more difficult” for the longest time, that’s rubbed some pro-lifers as unabashed selfishness, the “Me, Me, Me, it’s all about me” culture, and it’s still falls under the whole paradigm of medical decisions between a doctor and patient.

That’s where the rub comes, for some people. I’m just explaining the phenomenon as I’ve studied it. Not that I agree or believe these sentiments myself.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Probably too political for the EE police thread
=====================

Numerous police officers lured to new jobs in Florida with cash from Governor Ron DeSantis’s flagship law enforcement relocation programhave histories of excessive violence or have been arrested for crimes including kidnapping and murder since signing up, a study of state documents has found……

However, among the almost 600 officers who moved to Florida and received the bonus – or were recruited in state – are a sizable number who either arrived with a range of complaints against them, or have since accrued criminal charges, the online media outlet Daily Dot has discovered.

They include a former trainee deputy with the Escambia county sheriff’s office charged with murdering her husband; an officer with the Miramar police department fired for domestic battery and kidnapping; and a former member of the New York police department (NYPD) who was hired by the Palm Beach police department having once been accused of an improper sexual proposition.

That officer, named by the Daily Dot as Daniel Meblin, was also part of a $160,000 settlement by the NYPD for violence at a 2020 protest against the deaths of Breonna Taylor and George Floyd in which officers were accused of beating Black males without provocation.

A Palm Beach police spokesperson told the Daily Dot that Meblin – who had complaints against him including abuse of authority and sexually propositioning a teenager – had disclosed his background during the hiring process, according to the NYPD watchdog 50-a.org……..

DeSantis’s $13.5m police program lures officers with violent records to Florida

Governor’s incentive scheme recruits officers with history of excessive violence or who have been arrested since signing up

www.theguardian.com

 

[J-DONK]

You do know he was threatened with a religious fatwa by Iranian Ayatollah and had to live in hiding for over a decade and had to be guarded at all times!!

Yes, there is an audience in that there is a literary figure being threatened and attacked due to his blasphemous depiction of Islam and being threatened as a heretic, taking on an Islamic theocratic regime. Freedom of speech vs. hate speech dynamic. Intellectualism vs. conformist, fanatical interpretations of religious texts/dogmas. I call bullshirt that there wouldn’t be a large audience for that series. They did it with the Republic of Gilead, they can find one with Salman Rushdie’s experiences dealing with radical, fundamentalist Islam and having HIS forkING LIFE THREATENED. Maybe under different contexts, but I disagree about not being an audience. I could see a movie, at least, being made about his experiences.

You don’t care or aren’t the least bit interested about all those supposed rumors surrounding how Jennifer Lawrence getting a role that would define her career and make her a star. Just because you don’t want to know or don’t care doesn’t mean some people are wrong that there isn’t a story there. Harvey Weinstein’s litany of sexual abuse, harassment, bullying, rape and repeated, continual cover-ups was the origin point for the #Metoo movement exploding into the public consciousness in 2017.

Man why are we still talking about this. Also, the answer is obvious.

Has anyone in this thread heard the phrase the War on Ramadan/Eid?

Is there a "Muslim Morale Majority" I've never heard of?

Do you know why that is?

The simplest answer is that most Americans don't interact with Islam on ANY level during their daily lives. There isn't a critical mass of Muslims in this country to have daily interaction with, and political power.

As far as mass media representation, you generally write/talk about the devil you know.

 

[Saintman2884]

Man why are we still talking about this. Also, the answer is obvious.

Has anyone in this thread heard the phrase the War on Ramadan/Eid?

Is there a "Muslim Morale Majority" I've never heard of?

Do you know why that is?

The simplest answer is that most Americans don't interact with Islam on ANY level during their daily lives. There isn't a critical mass of Muslims in this country to have daily interaction with, and political power.

As far as mass media representation, you generally write/talk about the devil you know.

Muslim Majority? What do you call shariah law? Al Qeida? ISIS? Hezbollah or Hamas? What type of government do you think they support or believe? Do you know what kind of government Iran’s had since 1979? A theocratic regime, perhaps.

Mass media representation, do you think this is the late 19th century and most Americans aren’t familiar with or aren’t aware of radical, fundamentalist Islam in this globalized world we live in now? The world is a much smaller place than it was 130 years ago, due to social media, Internet.

The devil you know? Considering what we’ve been dealing with since 9/11, that’s absurd. It still sounds a little like picking and choosing.

I mean, how could most Americans not faced with the reality of knowing about radical terrorist groups or dealing with them considering we were in two ME countries fighting these same insurgent groups for over 20 years? War in Iraq? Afghanistan?

As far as your fourth argument, how might 9/11 Twin Towers attacks kind of disprove your argument wrong about most Americans not becoming aware or knowledgeable about radical, Islamic terrorism? How many Americans died due to those attacks in NYC and at the Pentagon in D.C. and how we’re still dealing with the ramifications over 21 years later.

 

[Taurus]

Nah, we overestimated the Republican electorate.

What are her Flaws? She's too driven, stiff and guarded? I sure hope you don't mean the fabricated ones the GOP has been propagating for over 30 years. Her character has been under attack since she became a clear threat to the GOP.

She's as genuine and likable as a cube of pure aspartame.

POTUS is a pure popularity contest, sadly.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

She's as genuine and likable as a cube of pure aspartame.

POTUS is a pure popularity contest, sadly.

Your description of her is a fair one, 2884's is exactly what the GOP fought for decades to imprint onto her. She was an accomplished academic and statesman, what she lack was charisma and that prevented her from overcoming the attacks on her character by the the Republican extremist.

 

[Saintman2884]

Your description of her is a fair one, 2884's is exactly what the GOP fought for decades to imprint onto her. She was an accomplished academic and statesman, what she lack was charisma and that prevented her from overcoming the attacks on her character by the the Republican extremist.

You don’t know shirt about me and I don’t appreciate having snide remarks being made about what you supposedly think I believe by you or anyone else. I also don’t appreciate being labeled some idiotic, irrational mark like I’m incapable of critical thinking and a pawn.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

You don’t know shirt about me and I don’t appreciate having snide remarks being made about what you supposedly think I believe by you or anyone else. I also don’t appreciate being labeled some idiotic, irrational mark like I’m incapable of critical thinking and a pawn.

I know enough and now I know more. I couldn't care less about what you think of me and don't care enough about you to have label you as anything. If you felt I have label you as a...

idiotic, irrational mark like I’m incapable of critical thinking and a pawn

...perhaps you are getting that through some self reflection.

I asked a simple question:

What are her Flaws? She's too driven, stiff and guarded? I sure hope you don't mean the fabricated ones the GOP has been propagating for over 30 years. Her character has been under attack since she became a clear threat to the GOP.

You responded with the GOP HRC narrative, exactly what I hope you wouldn't:

Benghazi, for one. Her supposed, authoritarian demeanor, attitude, and personality has rubbed some people the wrong people.

Then there’s the little soap opera involving her husband cheating on her, brazenly with a mid-20’s WH intern and deciding to stay with that lecherous husband of hers, who made a fool out of her in front of the entire world, back in the late 90’s. She lost some respect from the electorate, IMHO, for not dumping Bill’s arse. A lot of women would have. Whether she deserved that loss of respect or whether it’s fair(IMHO, it isn’t) but a lot of people held it against her and never forgot.

 

[MT15]

You don’t know shirt about me and I don’t appreciate having snide remarks being made about what you supposedly think I believe by you or anyone else. I also don’t appreciate being labeled some idiotic, irrational mark like I’m incapable of critical thinking and a pawn.

You don’t have a problem when it’s you assuming what others believe, though. Maybe allow others the latitude you give yourself?