Is Russia about to invade Ukraine? (2 Viewers)

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    superchuck500

    superchuck500

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    Russia continues to mass assets within range of Ukraine - though the official explanations are that they are for various exercises. United States intelligence has noted that Russian operatives in Ukraine could launch 'false flag' operations as a predicate to invasion. The West has pressed for negotiations and on Friday in Geneva, the US Sec. State Blinken will meet with the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov.

    Certainly the Russian movements evidence some plan - but what is it? Some analysts believe that Putin's grand scheme involves securing Western commitments that NATO would never expand beyond its current composition. Whether that means action in Ukraine or merely the movement of pieces on the chess board remains to be seen.


    VIENNA — No one expected much progress from this past week’s diplomatic marathon to defuse the security crisis Russia has ignited in Eastern Europe by surrounding Ukraine on three sides with 100,000 troops and then, by the White House’s accounting, sending in saboteurs to create a pretext for invasion.

    But as the Biden administration and NATO conduct tabletop simulations about how the next few months could unfold, they are increasingly wary of another set of options for President Vladimir V. Putin, steps that are more far-reaching than simply rolling his troops and armor over Ukraine’s border.

    Mr. Putin wants to extend Russia’s sphere of influence to Eastern Europe and secure written commitments that NATO will never again enlarge. If he is frustrated in reaching that goal, some of his aides suggested on the sidelines of the negotiations last week, then he would pursue Russia’s security interests with results that would be felt acutely in Europe and the United States.

    There were hints, never quite spelled out, that nuclear weapons could be shifted to places — perhaps not far from the United States coastline — that would reduce warning times after a launch to as little as five minutes, potentially igniting a confrontation with echoes of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.
    Click to expand...

    www.nytimes.com

    Russia Issues Subtle Threats More Far-Reaching Than a Ukraine Invasion

    If the West fails to meet its security demands, Moscow could take measures like placing nuclear missiles close to the U.S. coastline, Russian officials have hinted.
    www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com


    www.nytimes.com

    Blinken Will Meet With Russia as U.S. Pushes for More Diplomacy

    Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken will meet with Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov of Russia in Geneva on Friday as the United States warns that Russia could soon attack Ukraine.
    www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

    snyder.substack.com

    How to think about war in Ukraine

    Start with the Ukrainians
    snyder.substack.com snyder.substack.com


     
    DaveXA said:
    Last sentence in passage below prohibits any individual acting on behalf of the US government from engaging or conspiring to engage in political assassination.
    Click to expand...

    Ok. How's Graham engaging or conspiring to engage in political assassination? Him implying someone should kill Putin - he never says "kill him" - isn't exactly engaging or conspiring to engage in political assassination.

    And we are talking about a man in Putin who is actively trying to assassinate the Ukrainian president, killing civilian men, women, and children, targeting nuclear plants, and threatening with nuclear attacks, all during an invasion of a sovereign country, and who probably will target other countries after that.
     
    This god damn war..........

    istockphoto-471215848-612x612.jpg
     
    Interesting read
    =============================

    Arizona state Sen. Wendy Rogers (R) was only one of the speakers at the Feb. 25 America First Political Action Conference to voice support for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. But her meme-ready remark — urging more tanks and using a crude term to call for fewer transgender people — reminds us that many on the American right see Russia as an ally in the culture wars. This long-standing alliance has forced a rift within the Republican Party since Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. Even with mounting civilian casualties this week and a growing humanitarian crisis, former president Donald Trump’s most ardent supporters refuse to condemn his remarks about the “smart” invasion.

    But there is another dimension to this rift, illustrated by the audience to which Rogers spoke: how this alliance of cultural conservatives in the United States and Russia has also embraced racial and ethnic bigotry. White evangelicals once saw Russia as an existential threat to traditional gender roles and sexual morality, but over the past three decades, they have forged a partnership in a global family values movement that not only embraces sexual and gender traditionalism but sees these practices as a solution to demographic changes around the globe.

    In fact, GOP-proposed state-level anti-transgender and “Don’t Say Gay” bills actually echo Russian laws — which isn’t surprising since U.S. conservatives contributed to the Russian legal prohibitions. That’s become a real problem for Republican leaders, who over the past week have rejected not only AFPAC’s support for Putin’s war but also the group’s explicit white nationalism, antisemitism and incitements to violence...........

     
    Optimus Prime said:
    Interesting read
    =============================

    Arizona state Sen. Wendy Rogers (R) was only one of the speakers at the Feb. 25 America First Political Action Conference to voice support for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. But her meme-ready remark — urging more tanks and using a crude term to call for fewer transgender people — reminds us that many on the American right see Russia as an ally in the culture wars. This long-standing alliance has forced a rift within the Republican Party since Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. Even with mounting civilian casualties this week and a growing humanitarian crisis, former president Donald Trump’s most ardent supporters refuse to condemn his remarks about the “smart” invasion.

    But there is another dimension to this rift, illustrated by the audience to which Rogers spoke: how this alliance of cultural conservatives in the United States and Russia has also embraced racial and ethnic bigotry. White evangelicals once saw Russia as an existential threat to traditional gender roles and sexual morality, but over the past three decades, they have forged a partnership in a global family values movement that not only embraces sexual and gender traditionalism but sees these practices as a solution to demographic changes around the globe.

    In fact, GOP-proposed state-level anti-transgender and “Don’t Say Gay” bills actually echo Russian laws — which isn’t surprising since U.S. conservatives contributed to the Russian legal prohibitions. That’s become a real problem for Republican leaders, who over the past week have rejected not only AFPAC’s support for Putin’s war but also the group’s explicit white nationalism, antisemitism and incitements to violence...........

    Click to expand...
    That kind of explains why that Green woman from Georgia was condemning Lindsey Graham the other day for him suggesting that a Russian ought to cowboy up and shoot Putin.

    She likes Putin and doesn't want him countered because she want's Putin to succeed, but she doesn't want to say that in words and take flack for openly supporting the Russians against the Ukrainians.
     
    Optimus Prime said:
    Interesting read
    =============================

    Arizona state Sen. Wendy Rogers (R) was only one of the speakers at the Feb. 25 America First Political Action Conference to voice support for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. But her meme-ready remark — urging more tanks and using a crude term to call for fewer transgender people — reminds us that many on the American right see Russia as an ally in the culture wars. This long-standing alliance has forced a rift within the Republican Party since Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. Even with mounting civilian casualties this week and a growing humanitarian crisis, former president Donald Trump’s most ardent supporters refuse to condemn his remarks about the “smart” invasion.

    But there is another dimension to this rift, illustrated by the audience to which Rogers spoke: how this alliance of cultural conservatives in the United States and Russia has also embraced racial and ethnic bigotry. White evangelicals once saw Russia as an existential threat to traditional gender roles and sexual morality, but over the past three decades, they have forged a partnership in a global family values movement that not only embraces sexual and gender traditionalism but sees these practices as a solution to demographic changes around the globe.

    In fact, GOP-proposed state-level anti-transgender and “Don’t Say Gay” bills actually echo Russian laws — which isn’t surprising since U.S. conservatives contributed to the Russian legal prohibitions. That’s become a real problem for Republican leaders, who over the past week have rejected not only AFPAC’s support for Putin’s war but also the group’s explicit white nationalism, antisemitism and incitements to violence...........

    Click to expand...

    enewspaper.latimes.com

    GOP extremists getting a pass from their leaders

    enewspaper.latimes.com
    Click to expand...
     
    nolaspe said:
    Rubio doing Rubio things (along with Steve Daines)...
    Click to expand...
    I got involved in trying to keep Steve Daines out to the Senate back in 2014. I gave money to Amanda Curtis who was running against him, and when I discovered through trying to give her money and it not being an easy thing to do, and that her Wikipedia page was woefully out of date, I edited it so it was up to date and had links in it so others could more easily give her money to help her too. I also wrote letters to people I knew in Montana to push them into supporting Curtis.

    Her being an outspoken socialist made it kind of hard for her to win in Montana but we gave it a hell of try to keep that Daines' rear out of that seat.

    Poorly Steve Daines reminds me of a fire plug of a type that real Great Dane dogs would most like to hike a hind leg for.
     
    SystemShock said:
    Ok. How's Graham engaging or conspiring to engage in political assassination? Him implying someone should kill Putin - he never says "kill him" - isn't exactly engaging or conspiring to engage in political assassination.

    And we are talking about a man in Putin who is actively trying to assassinate the Ukrainian president, killing civilian men, women, and children, targeting nuclear plants, and threatening with nuclear attacks, all during an invasion of a sovereign country, and who probably will target other countries after that.
    Click to expand...
    He essentially said someone in Russia ought to take him out by any means necessary. That would obviously imply up to and including assassination. He even stated whoever does so would be doing his country a service. I mean, I don't like Putin any more than anyone else, but a Congressman shouldn't be so cavalier with his words. It may come to a point where we'd have to work with him for whatever reason and Graham's comments would just muck that up.
     
    I am in favor of this...
    www.newsmax.com

    Visa, Mastercard Stopping All Russian Transactions

    Visa and Mastercard announced Saturday they will stop all credit card transactions connected with Russian clients and financial institutions in the upcoming days over the deadly invasion of Ukraine following a plea made by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to members...
    www.newsmax.com www.newsmax.com
     
    SteveSBrickNJ said:
    I am in favor of this...
    www.newsmax.com

    Visa, Mastercard Stopping All Russian Transactions

    Visa and Mastercard announced Saturday they will stop all credit card transactions connected with Russian clients and financial institutions in the upcoming days over the deadly invasion of Ukraine following a plea made by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to members...
    www.newsmax.com www.newsmax.com
    Click to expand...
    Well that was SWIFT.

    Does anyone else find it odd that nobody is reporting Ukrainian death counts?
     
    www.newyorker.com

    Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

    For years, the political scientist has claimed that Putin’s aggression toward Ukraine is caused by Western intervention. Have recent events changed his mind?
    www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com

    Here's an interview of John Mearsheimer, while he defends his realpolitik world view. He blames the West for this mess based on his calculus that the West's aggressive expansion is the real cause of Putin's invasion of Ukraine, and 2014's annexation of Crimea.
    Let’s turn to that time and the annexation of Crimea. I was reading an old article where you wrote, “According to the prevailing wisdom in the West, the Ukraine Crisis can be blamed almost entirely on Russian aggression. Russian president Vladimir Putin, the argument goes, annexed Crimea out of a longstanding desire to resuscitate the Soviet Empire, and he may eventually go after the rest of Ukraine as well as other countries in Eastern Europe.” And then you say, “But this account is wrong.” Does anything that’s happened in the last couple weeks make you think that account was closer to the truth than you might have thought?

    Oh, I think I was right. I think the evidence is clear that we did not think he was an aggressor before February 22, 2014. This is a story that we invented so that we could blame him. My argument is that the West, especially the United States, is principally responsible for this disaster. But no American policymaker, and hardly anywhere in the American foreign-policy establishment, is going to want to acknowledge that line of argument, and they will say that the Russians are responsible.

    You mean because the Russians did the annexation and the invasion?

    Yes.
    Click to expand...
     
    el caliente said:
    Well that was SWIFT.

    Does anyone else find it odd that nobody is reporting Ukrainian death counts?
    Click to expand...
    Its not odd at all. We have already picked a side. And its quite clear to me at least that its both the right side morally and geopolitically. If the media and the Ukrainians releases the casualty numbers and they have, though it should be taken with a grain of salt, it may affect morale. Just like they are begging folks not to show their troops in all those tik toks vids etc. They are seeking a strategic advantage. And they need all the help they can get.

    Speaking of geopolitics, if the Ukrainians do hold and somehow restore their pre 2014 borders, that would balance Europe's dependency on Russian natural gas tremendously.

    Edit. I want to add that there are Russian perspectives too thats readily available online. If there is bias in the west's media reporting, the other sides reporting can simply be described as propaganda or lies.
     
    Last edited:
    DaveXA said:
    He essentially said someone in Russia ought to take him out by any means necessary. That would obviously imply up to and including assassination.
    Click to expand...
    Sure, but he's not conspiring or engaging on anything.
    DaveXA said:
    He even stated whoever does so would be doing his country a service.
    Click to expand...
    Which is true.
    DaveXA said:
    It may come to a point where we'd have to work with him for whatever reason and Graham's comments would just muck that up.
    Click to expand...

    Putin doesn't seem the type that will get his feelings hurt.
     
    UriUT said:
    www.newyorker.com

    Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

    For years, the political scientist has claimed that Putin’s aggression toward Ukraine is caused by Western intervention. Have recent events changed his mind?
    www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com

    Here's an interview of John Mearsheimer, while he defends his realpolitik world view. He blames the West for this mess based on his calculus that the West's aggressive expansion is the real cause of Putin's invasion of Ukraine, and 2014's annexation of Crimea.
    Click to expand...
    To barrow a phrase from Jen Psaki I'll circle back.

    I blame Russia for this mess because after the breakup of the Soviet Union unlike the Ukraine, Russia kept their nuclear weapons horde when they were unable to maintain them, protect them from theft, or prevent then from becoming an ecological disaster as was the case of their rotting nuclear powered submarine fleet that the western nations had to chip in to pay the bill for the Russians to clean up.

    Might as well pound sand. I think i'll ignore John Mearsheimer's august opinion about blame. Blame is usually a useless quotient to concern ones self over. Best to focus on the now and the future.
     
    Another article on Russia and the Right Wing
    ===============================

    The former presidential adviser and Russia expert Fiona Hill made headlines last week when she stated bluntly in a Politico interview that Vladimir Putin would not hesitate to use nuclear weapons.


    But it was another part of that long interview that I found almost as arresting. Hill described how Putin, as he reaches for domination, relies heavily on his skills at the influence-and-information game.
“What happens in a Russian ‘all-of-society’ war, you soften up the enemy,” she told her interviewer, Maura Reynolds.

    Hill named some names: “You get the Tucker Carlsons and Donald Trumps doing your job for you.”
And now, after a few years of their apologetic rhetoric on behalf of Russia, Putin “has got swaths of the Republican Party” and “masses of the U.S. public saying, ‘Good on you, Vladimir Putin,’ or blaming NATO, or blaming the U.S.” for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, she added.


    It was quite an indictment from a well-respected intelligence officer, who worked in both Republican and Democratic administrations. She became known to the American public for her unsparing analysis when she testified during Trump’s first impeachment hearings.
But while it’s startling to hear it said so directly — a Fiona Hill specialty — the proof is there for anyone to see.


    In addition to the many times that Trump has praised Putin as strong and admirable, while failing to criticize his human rights offenses, our previous president helped the Russian cause in more specific ways.

    He reportedly argued to fellow world leaders in 2018 that Crimea — the Ukrainian peninsula that Russia invaded and annexed in 2014 — was Russian because, after all, people who live there speak Russian…….

     

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