How to improve American Education in 2021. (1 Viewer)

Paul · Jul 27, 2021

The most recent PISA results, from 2015, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 38th out of 71 countries in math and 24th in science. Among the 35 members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsors the PISA initiative, the U.S. ranked 30th in math and 19th in science.

U.S. students' academic achievement still lags that of their peers in many other countries

U.S. students continue to rank near the middle, and behind many other advanced industrial nations, in international math, science and reading assessments.

www.pewresearch.org

My suggestion is rather simple.

1. Study why immigrants from East Asia, India, and Nigeria do well with American education. Apply that insight to other groups (if possible).
2. Manage public schools as if though they were private schools with uniforms and discipline.
3. Create high end special schools for those that are truly disenfranchised.
4. Create a force of social workers to treat family dysfunction with regards to education.
5. Reduce the curriculum to the simple basics and repeat that on a yearly basis.
6. At about 10th grade divide college bound students away from non-college bound.
7. Provide solid basic education and trade training for non-college bound kids. There is no point in offering free college to these kids.

Goatman saint · Sep 6, 2021

Amazing how many opinions are on here. It reminds me of Jim Mora’s rant you think you know, but you don’t know. So much on here is twisted, some factually wrong, some very slanted, some reacting to the way American education is set up which is very different than many countries.

DaveXA · Sep 6, 2021

Paul said:
Most of the greatest universities of the world were or are religious. Harvard used to be a divinity school. Puritans established Harvard College in 1636, shortly after arriving in Massachusetts Bay. Georgetown university is a Jesuit university. When you go there you have no clue that is a Catholic institution.

Most of the great high prep schools were I live are religious. Parents send their kids there for academics and not religion. In Sweden, a much more left leaning nation that America parents can use school vouchers to send their kids to private schools (religious or not). Condemning poor kids to the failing public schools in their neighborhoods ran by the NEA is a severe assault on freedom.

School voucher supporters cheer Supreme Court ruling that states can’t bar religious campuses
A Supreme Court ruling this week determined that states with voucher programs that pay for students’ private school tuition must allow religious campuses to participate, as Florida, home of t…
www.orlandosentinel.com

I've visited the Georgetown campus probably a dozen times over the last 20 years. The Catholic symbolism, churches, architecture and even curriculum makes it pretty obviously a Catholic institution. To say someone would have no clue that it's a Catcholic institution when visiting there is frankly ignorant.

Screenshot_20210906-233729_Samsung Internet.jpg

Taurus · Sep 6, 2021

Paul said:
What do you propose?

I'm not an educator, just a parent.
But gutting free, public education isn't the answer. The reason we have it, the reason it's compulsory is that we're a self-governing nation. To do that, we must have a citizenry that's educated enough to handle the job. Universally so.

Just as a starting point, we need to figure out how to make school the preferable thing again. We need to figure out discipline methods that aren't dependent on suspending/expelling kids who didn't want to be there in the first place.

dtc · Sep 6, 2021

Paul said:
Most of the greatest universities of the world were or are religious. Harvard used to be a divinity school. Puritans established Harvard College in 1636, shortly after arriving in Massachusetts Bay. Georgetown university is a Jesuit university. When you go there you have no clue that is a Catholic institution.

Most of the great high prep schools were I live are religious. Parents send their kids there for academics and not religion. In Sweden, a much more left leaning nation that America parents can use school vouchers to send their kids to private schools (religious or not). Condemning poor kids to the failing public schools in their neighborhoods ran by the NEA is a severe assault on freedom.

School voucher supporters cheer Supreme Court ruling that states can’t bar religious campuses
A Supreme Court ruling this week determined that states with voucher programs that pay for students’ private school tuition must allow religious campuses to participate, as Florida, home of t…
www.orlandosentinel.com

I'm not talking about historical founding or affiliations. I'm talking about literally teaching nonsense in place of science and lies instead of history. Georgetown does not teach new earth creationism. Princeton does not teach white, capitalist Jesus. Loyola does not teach Abecka text books which ignore the reality of our historical issues with race and slavery.

Tax dollars ought to not go to teaching delusional crap.

dtc · Sep 6, 2021

Paul said:
They do not run the schools, but the teachers belong*. You know exactly what I mean? The issue is that the schools in poor neighborhoods suck and many want to prevent responsible parents from choosing a better school.

NEA is against vouchers. They stick it to the poor each time. They force poor children to attend segregated schools.

The schools in poor neighborhoods suck because government refuses to fix them nor to address the issues which cause them to suck.

It's not an easy solution, but giving tax dollars to extreme religious groups to teach nonsense is not a solution.

Right here in my town, we have Pensacola Christian College which until recently refused to allow their girls teams to wear anything less than long skirts. Their text book operation is far and wide part of the insanity of fundamentalist curriculum for homeschoolers and the nuttiest of nutty schools.

Paul · Sep 7, 2021

dtc said:
The schools in poor neighborhoods suck because government refuses to fix them nor to address the issues which cause them to suck.

The schools suck because the students come form dysfunctional homes.
How much does Baltimore City spend per student?

Here's what we found. The district ran on a $1.4 billion budget for only 78,000 students – a cost of $18,000 per pupil. Maryland state taxpayers put in approximately $1 billion, and the balance came from local and federal taxpayers.

CEO Sonja Santelises ($339,028) and her chief of staff, Alison Perkins-Cohen ($198,168), collectively earned nearly $700,000 in pay, perks, pension funding, and health insurance benefits.

Santelises’ cash compensation was more than $126,000 higher than that of the U.S. Secretary of Education, a cabinet-level position.

Baltimore City Public Schools Promoted Student With 0.13 GPA While Spending A $1.4 Billion Budget
For Baltimore City Public School employees, it paid to be virtual.
www.forbes.com

dtc said:
It's not an easy solution, but giving tax dollars to extreme religious groups to teach nonsense is not a solution.

The problem with public education is that it is highly corrupted and a very inflated bureaucrasy. The corrupted schools are running by a left leaning liberals that pay themselves very high salaries. And they want more money to keep doing this.

dtc said:
Right here in my town, we have Pensacola Christian College which until recently refused to allow their girls teams to wear anything less than long skirts. Their text book operation is far and wide part of the insanity of fundamentalist curriculum for homeschoolers and the nuttiest of nutty schools.

Perhaps that is better than going to a drug infested unsafe school where the kids are learning nothing. Why sentence the kids to such a system?

dtc · Sep 7, 2021

Paul said:
The schools suck because the students come form dysfunctional homes.
How much does Baltimore City spend per student?

Here's what we found. The district ran on a $1.4 billion budget for only 78,000 students – a cost of $18,000 per pupil. Maryland state taxpayers put in approximately $1 billion, and the balance came from local and federal taxpayers.

CEO Sonja Santelises ($339,028) and her chief of staff, Alison Perkins-Cohen ($198,168), collectively earned nearly $700,000 in pay, perks, pension funding, and health insurance benefits.

Santelises’ cash compensation was more than $126,000 higher than that of the U.S. Secretary of Education, a cabinet-level position.

Baltimore City Public Schools Promoted Student With 0.13 GPA While Spending A $1.4 Billion Budget
For Baltimore City Public School employees, it paid to be virtual.
www.forbes.com

The problem with public education is that it is highly corrupted and a very inflated bureaucrasy. The corrupted schools are running by a left leaning liberals that pay themselves very high salaries. And they want more money to keep doing this.

Perhaps that is better than going to a drug infested unsafe school where the kids are learning nothing. Why sentence the kids to such a system?

Are you for real? I mean every post is like some plagiarized cartoon.

Paul · Sep 7, 2021

dtc said:
Are you for real? I mean every post is like some plagiarized cartoon.

Do you have an argument?

Paul · Sep 7, 2021

dtc said:
Right here in my town, we have Pensacola Christian College which until recently refused to allow their girls teams to wear anything less than long skirts. Their text book operation is far and wide part of the insanity of fundamentalist curriculum for homeschoolers and the nuttiest of nutty schools.

Out of curiosity: Why do you think a dress code or God forbid uniforms are a bad thing for students?

bird · Sep 7, 2021

How many posting in this thread are in education? How many are administrators? How many are teachers? How many are special education teachers? How many are support staff from maintenance to those who assist with special needs children? How many are in private schools? How many are in public schools? How many work in low income districts? How many work in high income districts?

I won’t give you my take as of yet nor that of Mrs. Bird who just retired after 33 years in the field.

Paul · Sep 7, 2021

bird said:
How many posting in this thread are in education? How many are administrators? How many are teachers? How many are special education teachers? How many are support staff from maintenance to those who assist with special needs children? How many are in private schools? How many are in public schools? How many work in low income districts? How many work in high income districts?

I won’t give you my take as of yet nor that of Mrs. Bird who just retired after 33 years in the field.

The public-school system enjoys the status of being the most layered, centralized, and massive bureaucracies in America, and federal intervention has only made things worse.

Bureaucracy Has Conquered Schools. Joe Biden Won’t Fix It | National Review

If anything, he looks set to make a centuries-old trend worse.

www.nationalreview.com

Compare the size of the administration of public schools and the size of administration of Catholic schools. The difference is like night and day. The public school system is infected with a gigantic number of bureaucrats milking the system for their own benefit.

Growth in Administrative Staff, Assistant Principals Far Outpaces Teacher Hiring

“While teacher pay has stagnated over the past two decades, the percentage of school budgets going to administrators has skyrocketed. Half the states now have more noninstructional personnel than teachers. The Charleston County, South Carolina, school system had 30 administrators earning over $100,000 in 2013. Last year it had 133 administrators earning more than $100,000. Union officials and central bureaucrats owe their careers to the bureaucratic labyrinth they create and oversee.”

Growth in Administrative Staff, Assistant Principals Far Outpaces Teacher Hiring

Labor Department counts 271,020 K-12 “education administrators,” with an average wage of more than $100,000 a year

www.educationnext.org

samiam5211 · Sep 7, 2021

Paul said:
The public-school system enjoys the status of being the most layered, centralized, and massive bureaucracies in America, and federal intervention has only made things worse.

Bureaucracy Has Conquered Schools. Joe Biden Won’t Fix It | National Review
If anything, he looks set to make a centuries-old trend worse.
www.nationalreview.com

Compare the size of the administration of public schools and the size of administration of Catholic schools. The difference is like night and day. The public school system is infected with a gigantic number of bureaucrats milking the system for their own benefit.

Growth in Administrative Staff, Assistant Principals Far Outpaces Teacher Hiring

“While teacher pay has stagnated over the past two decades, the percentage of school budgets going to administrators has skyrocketed. Half the states now have more noninstructional personnel than teachers. The Charleston County, South Carolina, school system had 30 administrators earning over $100,000 in 2013. Last year it had 133 administrators earning more than $100,000. Union officials and central bureaucrats owe their careers to the bureaucratic labyrinth they create and oversee.”

Growth in Administrative Staff, Assistant Principals Far Outpaces Teacher Hiring
Labor Department counts 271,020 K-12 “education administrators,” with an average wage of more than $100,000 a year
www.educationnext.org

Do you know what an assistant principal does?

Paul · Sep 7, 2021

samiam5211 said:
Do you know what an assistant principal does?

The public school system is bloated with administrators. It is a typical large government bureaucracy. I do not kinow what an assistant principal does. However, I do know he or she sucks away money from education. The administration of Catholic schools is streamlined and tiny. I keep mentioning Catholic schools because they are the largest provider of private education for centuries.

Catholic schools are largely tuition-driven, which means that the principal and other administrators must recruit students, meet with parents, market the school, and explain its value to parents who pay for the service. While the budget process in Catholic schools is considerably more straightforward, the process of obtaining funding in Catholic schools is more market driven and the schools must satisfy the needs of consumers.

Teacher unions exert an influence on public schools that is largely absent from Catholic schools.

The fact that principals in Catholic schools have the authority to dismiss students, usually without board approval, serves as an important reinforcement for academic achievement and appropriate social behavior.

School Administrator Magazine

AASA's award-winning magazine provides big-picture perspectives on a broad range of issues in school system leadership.

aasa.org

At the end of the day it is just one more example of the private sector doing a better job,

CoolBrees · Sep 7, 2021

If you want to send your kids to Catholic Schools that great. I don’t. I don’t like that Catholic Schools teach molestation is acceptable and sexual predators are to be protected, and that there is an invisible guy in the sky that watches kids when they masturbate. I am not paying for your delusion and fear of the unknown.

Religion, thank Jeebus, has no bearing on reality in these Unites States. The First Amendment guarantees freedom FROM religion as much as it guarantees your right to believe in fairy tales like a woman got turned into salt.

I get it though. Being an outsider here, life isn’t what you expected so hoping for an afterlife makes sense. I get those immigrants that need religion.

And maybe I am wrong. Heck those catholic schools were good enough to get you daughters married off to white folks!

samiam5211 · Sep 7, 2021

Paul said:
The fact that principals in Catholic schools have the authority to dismiss students, usually without board approval, serves as an important reinforcement for academic achievement and appropriate social behavior.

So when schools get to pick their students, they perform higher. Shocking!

Paul · Sep 7, 2021

samiam5211 said:
So when schools get to pick their students, they perform higher. Shocking!

Very good Sam! You are so correct! That is why a public school in Bethesda Maryland outperforms many other schools in the state. The kids come from families where education and discipline are priorities. In this instance any public school can do as well as a private school. The key is to have motivated students that come from families that value education.

The question that begs an answer is: Why not give parents (that care about education) that live in district with awful schools the opportunity of school choice?

How about public schools having the liberty to expel the bad apples? It is way better to save some students than none.

A great education is not so much about spending more. We have been doing that forever, see graph below.

CoolBrees · Sep 7, 2021

Why do you think public schools can’t or don’t expel students?

Farb · Sep 7, 2021

dtc said:
You can teach your kid anything you want, but it is not my belief that tax dollars should go to teaching religious nonsense.

Then why make it illegal for parents to send their child to a private school/religious school, who generally provide much much better over all education? How are your tax dollars being spent on private schools?

That sounds very authoritarian to me, no?

How to improve American Education in 2021. (1 Viewer)

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