Ruth Bader Ginsburg has passed (Replaced by Amy Coney Barrett)(Now Abortion Discussion) (2 Viewers)

So, Farb, you don’t want to be forced to take a vaccine, but you’re fine with forcing women to have children? It’s okay for the government to force a woman to go through a pregnancy, even if she has an abusive partner, or was raped repeatedly by her father, step-father, or uncle? But you don’t want anyone telling you that you have to take a vaccine that will do nothing to affect the rest of your life? Is that the situation?

Farb said:

Why do we have to pretend women can't think for themselves before jumping in the sack with a guy but once she is pregnant, she is the agency to prevent a life from forming? If she is not in a position to have child, there are lots of free birth control options available. 1 is 100% free and 100% effective.
They are a host body, that is what being pregnant means. They are the ones that have all the humans.

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And if they had sex while using protection for the express purpose of not conceiving? What if they wanted to use protection but the man convinced the woman to go without? What if the guy is a real scumbag and removes his condom without telling her? What if the woman doesn't want sex at all, but she's raped?

How about health? The Texas law has very narrow exceptions for health reasons. What if a pregnancy carries a legit health risk to the woman that isn't covered by the law?

Do you believe there should be exceptions in any of these situations?

Optimus Prime said:

speak of the devil

just posted this in another thread
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…….We’re seeing what a profound difference there is in how Democrats and Republicans view power.

When Democrats have it, they’re often apologetic, uncertain and hesitant to use it any way that anyone might object to.

Republicans, on the other hand, will squeeze it and stretch it as far as they can. They aren’t reluctant, and they aren’t afraid of a backlash. Whatever they can do, they will do.

Think of how the two parties react when presented with an obstacle to getting what they want.

Democrats often issue statements of regret: We’d like to move forward, but what can we do? This is how democracy works.


Republicans, on the other hand, react to obstacles by getting creative. They search for loopholes, they engineer procedural workarounds, they devise innovative ways to seize and wield control.

When they come up with an idea and someone says, “That’s madness — no one has ever dared try something like that before,” they know they’re on the right track…..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/03/harsh-truth-this-moment-republicans-understand-power-democrats-do-not/

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I read the article earlier today, it's 100% on target. I've had it with the Democrats. They don't even TALK about taking desperate measures to stop the Republican insanity, let alone doing anything about it.

Increasing the number of Supreme Court Justices or making Washington DC and Puerto Rico states in order to potentially increase the number of Democratic Senators....NO, we can't have any of that! It wouldn't be "proper" for Democrats to resort to Repug hardball tactics!

The Democrats are going to allow this fascist forking Republican Party to take over the country in 2022 and completely destroy it, without even putting up a fight. God help us all.

Farb said:

I would completely flop those, but I agree with the sentiment. It is one big dance and we are idiots watching and enjoying it.

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I'm not enjoying it at all. I'm terrified of what the Nazi Repug Party is going to do when they regain power in 2022. The Democrats will NEVER hold power again. What happened on Jan 6, 2021 proved that.

This is an important thread. I know people who are anti-abortion love to think about how women who need abortions are all just whores who should’ve kept their legs closed, in fact I’m pretty sure Farb expressed a similar sentiment in this thread already. But this thread is why we need the right to make our own health decisions. This is why I truly believe the anti-abortion folks are not pro-life at all, but rather pro-control of women. And that especially includes all the religions out there that are anti-abortion. I’m going to screen shot it because it’s important for anti-abortion people to read this. This sort of scenario is not all that uncommon, there are all sorts of things that can medically go wrong during a pregnancy. We have the capability of easing the pain and lessening the medical risks, but anti-abortion folks want us to go back to the days when we could do nothing and let the women’s lives be at risk once again. It’s maddening.

And this from the comments on that thread speaks to the cruel things anti-abortionists have been allowed to be codified into law in some states:

Kerry Won Ohio said:

I'm not enjoying it at all. I'm terrified of what the Nazi Repug Party is going to do when they regain power in 2022. The Democrats will NEVER hold power again. What happened on Jan 6, 2021 proved that.

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What makes you think they'll regain power? They're gonna have to make inroads with new voters and independents between now and the elections. The only way I see them regaining power is if the Democrats lay down and give it to them. But, maybe you have a point. It wouldn't be the first time.

DaveXA said:

What makes you think they'll regain power? They're gonna have to make inroads with new voters and independents between now and the elections. The only way I see them regaining power is if the Democrats lay down and give it to them. But, maybe you have a point. It wouldn't be the first time.

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Yes, the Democrats are going to lay down and give it to them. Thanks to idiot moderate Democrats in Congress like Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema, who won't support HR 1 and eliminating the filibuster.

Have you been paying attention to the new voter suppression laws in Georgia and Texas? Not only that, the gerrymandering that is going to continue to occur in red states, now that the 2020 census is completed, is going to make it virtually impossible for Democrats to win in those states. Gerrymandering by itself is going to give Republicans control of the House in 2022.

Case in point -- Wisconsin. Democrats got over 50% of the vote in Wisconsin in 2020, yet Republicans still "won" over 60% of the legislative seats in the state due to gerrymandering. It's now going to be like this in every single red state.

Kerry Won Ohio said:

Yes, the Democrats are going to lay down and give it to them. Thanks to idiot moderate Democrats in Congress like Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema, who won't support HR 1 and eliminating the filibuster.

Have you been paying attention to the new voter suppression laws in Georgia and Texas? Not only that, the gerrymandering that is going to continue to occur in red states, now that the 2020 census is completed, is going to make it virtually impossible for Democrats to win in those states. Gerrymandering by itself is going to give Republicans control of the House in 2022.

Case in point -- Wisconsin. Democrats got over 50% of the vote in Wisconsin in 2020, yet Republicans still "won" over 60% of the legislative seats in the state due to gerrymandering. It's now going to be like this in every single red state.

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Well, Texas and Georgia already were red states turning purple-ish. Maybe not there yet, but will get to blue because of the changing demographics. I don't think the Republicans are gaining much. I guess we'll see.

DaveXA said:

Well, Texas and Georgia already were red states turning purple-ish. Maybe not there yet, but will get to blue because of the changing demographics. I don't think the Republicans are gaining much. I guess we'll see.

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It doesn't matter if Texas and Georgia are turning blue. The new laws will ensure that Republicans always maintain control, just like in Wisconsin. If they don't like the election results in those states, they'll just change the results. Their new voter suppression laws give them the power to do that.

You really think Democratic control of Texas and Georgia is inevitable, after Jan 6? Not even close. 147 Republicans voted on Jan 6 to overturn the election results in Pennsylvania. This is the new fascist Repug Party and there is no going back for them. Their cold, calculated strategy is permanent minority rule and they may very well achieve it.

Farb said:

I am prolife and I can not wait until the day that abortion is illegal but I am not big on the head hunter thing, if that is accurate. On a realist level, I also think certain exceptions should be made.

All that to be said, I will take a win when we can get a win.

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Yeah, abortion issue aside, the private action enforcement and bounty are really problematic - especially when you consider why they drafted it that way.

But one thing I continue to be deeply confused about is why this fervent advocacy for the unborn, which I recognize has its logic and appeal, doesn’t translate into the same enthusiasm for child welfare after birth. Not all, I recognize, but many “conservatives” these days actively support agendas that pretty clearly do not benefit children. Examples include more hot-button recent issues like border separation and school Covid policies, or more general, long-term issues like enhanced supports for low-income/at-risk households, school meal programs, and making schools safer from gun violence.

I’m not suggesting that being pro-life must mean you support a “liberal” social agenda - that’s not my angle. I’m talking about some basic policy-level elements that would seem to go hand-in-hand with the same motivations to so aggressively protect the unborn.

Yet it’s pretty rare, it seems, that conservatives bring the same energy to child welfare after birth (excepting of course the conspiratorial, often delusional anti-pedo groups - that’s a rabbit hole and not what I’m referring to). Some even support policies that seem pretty patently harmful to children.

I know there’s more dynamics at play and some of it is purely tribal behavior. But that’s something that has confused me foe a long time and still does.

superchuck500 said:

Yeah, abortion issue aside, the private action enforcement and bounty are really problematic - especially when you consider why they drafted it that way.

But one thing I continue to be deeply confused about is why this fervent advocacy for the unborn, which I recognize has its logic and appeal, doesn’t translate into the same enthusiasm for child welfare after birth. Not all, I recognize, but many “conservatives” these days actively support agendas that pretty clearly do not benefit children. Examples include more hot-button recent issues like border separation and school Covid policies, or more general, long-term issues like enhanced supports for low-income/at-risk households, school meal programs, and making schools safer from gun violence.

I’m not suggesting that being pro-life must mean you support a “liberal” social agenda - that’s not my angle. I’m talking about some basic policy-level elements that would seem to go hand-in-hand with the same motivations to so aggressively protect the unborn.

Yet it’s pretty rare, it seems, that conservatives bring the same energy to child welfare after birth (excepting of course the conspiratorial, often delusional anti-pedo groups - that’s a rabbit hole and not what I’m referring to). Some even support policies that seem pretty patently harmful to children.

I know there’s more dynamics at play and some of it is purely tribal behavior. But that’s something that has confused me foe a long time and still does.

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I don't know if this will help your confution, probably not because I generally confuse myself, but I will give it a shot
The reason most prolifers, this one at least, are against abortion (that is also suck a vague, harmless term actually) is because I value all human life, especially that of a children so I place that same importance and the same right to life on a developing life as I do a 2 year old. Both are sacred to me because both are a life.

SystemShock said:

I cannot wait for the rapture either

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You and me both brother!

JRad said:

Yet you still had to post a reply.

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And see above for yours? Funny how that works

cuddlemonkey said:

And if they had sex while using protection for the express purpose of not conceiving? What if they wanted to use protection but the man convinced the woman to go without? What if the guy is a real scumbag and removes his condom without telling her? What if the woman doesn't want sex at all, but she's raped?

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Stopping destroying a developing human life is not birth control. If you don't want to have a child then don't have sex. If you are coerist into having sex or unprotected sex at that, then that is really on you and no one else. That is called bad decisions and generally in life, those have consequences. If you do the crime, you do the time.

cuddlemonkey said:

How about health? The Texas law has very narrow exceptions for health reasons. What if a pregnancy carries a legit health risk to the woman that isn't covered by the law?

Do you believe there should be exceptions in any of these situations?

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Yes. If I were King, the only possible exclusions would be rape and incest (so beyond rare they shouldn't even be listed) and medical. Anything other than that, and that is ANYTHING else is just convenience and that is a hard no.

coldseat said:

We don't. Women make decisions everyday to not sleep with men and not get pregnant. It's just their agency doesn't suddenly end when they get pregnant and they suddenly become incubators (i.e. "host bodies") for the State. So you need a better reason than that to not give them the right to control their own bodies and future when they become pregnant. Which gets back to the part of my response that you ignored.

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That is exactly what they are. They are host bodies to another developing human. It is not their body I am worried about, it is the body that is inside them that I think has a right to life, just like a 1 year old has a right to life.
Which go back to my point, if you don't want a child, don't do the thing that give you a child. It is actually that simple. People need and should be responsible for their own actions.

coldseat said:

The reason you feel that way is because you believe the fight against abortion is a spiritual battle against the Satan and the forces of hell. That it's God himself who has passed down this edict to fight against abortion. That those that support abortion rights (Democrats) are doing the work of the Devil. I know because I heard those messages constantly at Catholic Church and from Christian sources. That seems normal to you but that belief leads to extremism. Because all of that is in the service or carrying out God's will and saving the soul of America, there is no such thing as going too far. It's doesn't matter how far you have to twist the law or the danger this puts women in because your side is just. This doesn't just impact the abortion debate but all of our current politics, because Dems aren't the opposite political party, they're the executors of Satan's will in America to a true believer. We saw what that produced on Jan 6th.

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Yes. And?
I hope you didn't plan for me to argue on this? I do think destroying an unborn person in the womb because either father or the mother does not to be inconvenienced from the product of their actions is evil.
Abortion has not become a holy sacrament in this new religion of yalls.
Yes, all this morality produced trespassing and a small unarmed riot.

coldseat said:

It's ridiculous to me that something as fundamentally important as a Women's bodily autonomy or what is considered a life in the womb would vary depending on what state you're in. That's as ridiculous as saying that it should be okay for slavery to exist in one state and not in others because the voters of that state want it.

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Welcome to the 10th. I think it is equally crazy that the federal goverment can create a 'right' in the constitution when there clearly is not one and bypass the 10th. That is what is crazy.
Also, if abortion is so important to a person, why not move to a state that allows killing of the unborn humans? Why must every region that so obviously have different values, kneel before the lefty values?

Kerry Won Ohio said:

I'm not enjoying it at all. I'm terrified of what the Nazi Repug Party is going to do when they regain power in 2022. The Democrats will NEVER hold power again. What happened on Jan 6, 2021 proved that.

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Fingers crossed my friend. But don't worry, when the Repugs do get power, all they will do is pass a few tax bills and that will be it. The dance cannot end, or we will see who is choreographing it.

When Dums have power, Repugs (I like that term) will birch about what they will do when they have power.
When the Repugs have power, they will do nothing and the Dums will birch about when they have power and what they will accomplish and actually do nothing.
And bow to your partner and the dance goes on.

Farb said:

Fingers crossed my friend. But don't worry, when the Repugs do get power, all they will do is pass a few tax bills and that will be it. The dance cannot end, or we will see who is choreographing it.

When Dums have power, Repugs (I like that term) will birch about what they will do when they have power.
When the Repugs have power, they will do nothing and the Dums will birch about when they have power and what they will accomplish and actually do nothing.
And bow to your partner and the dance goes on.

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You obviously haven't been paying attention to the voter suppression bills being passed by the Republican fascists in Texas and Georgia. Those aren't "a few tax bills".

Democrats aren't trying to take away people's right to vote. Only your party is doing that.