The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (2 Viewers)

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    Lapaz

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    There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.



    Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

    Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.
     
    I don't think that's possible because of the way they have cultivated their base over the last 30 years. If they try and become more moderate they will get taken out in the primaries but people who are more radical. The problem with building an entire party based on being inflexible is you have no dexterity to adjust.

    Agreed, which is part of why I'm not holding my breath. They either have to blow up the party entirely (Whigs) and reinvent themselves, or revamp from within, which will take a lot longer, and I think probably won't work.
     
    Dave, I’m sure they are going by precincts where the ballots originated. Unfortunately that still will allow a broad assumption about the race of the majority of the voters.
     
    Dave, I’m sure they are going by precincts where the ballots originated. Unfortunately that still will allow a broad assumption about the race of the majority of the voters.

    I was thinking that, but just wanted to be sure it was an assumption and not some made up comments.
     
    Here's the thing, I hope there is some level of reasonable flexibility for voting, within the law. But, man, I look at this Covid hot spot map, and I just think Republicans are going to have a heck of a time getting out to vote. Only a couple Democratic areas (like in spots of Wisconsin).

    we'll see if this ends up having a chilling effect or not.

    1602177976427.png
     
    Here's the thing, I hope there is some level of reasonable flexibility for voting, within the law. But, man, I look at this Covid hot spot map, and I just think Republicans are going to have a heck of a time getting out to vote. Only a couple Democratic areas (like in spots of Wisconsin).

    we'll see if this ends up having a chilling effect or not.

    1602177976427.png
    It may impact the national popular vote total. From a voter turnout standpoint, I expect Rs will be more likely to turnout on Election Day than Ds and see less spoiled ballots.
     
    Splitting hairs here, but technically, they're trying to ram it through before the Senate's lame duck session.
    Does that make it any better or more acceptable? Or is this splitting hairs just for the sake of hair splitting?
     
    I don't think they'll get it done before the election due to the GOP COVID outbreak, but point taken. I'm not sure that doing it knowing they are going to lose versus doing it after they've lost makes much difference.

    The current GOP is out of step with a majority of Americans on many major issues -- gay rights, health care, abortion, marijuana, etc. And instead of attempting to change with the times and adjust their platform to compete in the ol' marketplace of ideas and win at the polls, they've decided to double down and limit access to the polls instead. Their ideas can't survive democracy. I've seen lots of "ackshually we're a republic" takes before but it's wild that elected officials are now openly anti-democracy.
    And democracy can't survive their ideas. Their ideas and desires are in direct opposition to an equally representative government. A republic is still supposed to be a representative government and our constitutions says that all people have equal rights.
     
    Does that make it any better or more acceptable? Or is this splitting hairs just for the sake of hair splitting?

    It doesn't make it more or less anything. It is what it is. Inwas just saying that it's most likely going to happen before the election because I'm not seeing anything other than maybe a covid related hot spot happening in the Senate preventing a vote.

    I do think confirming ACB will be more difficult with a lame duck Senate because there are some Senators who might retaliate if they lose their election because of Trump. So there might possibly be a difference. But that more speculation than anything else. So it might matter
     
    On a lighter note. I checked the mail today. Have about 5 pieces of mail talking about voting by mail being safe or encouraging me to vote (no candidate preference). And 3 political ads. All Biden or Florida democrats.

    Last week I got some school board stuff. Havent gotten any for sheriff, which is puzzling.
     
    Oh, and looks like about half a million ballots were requested in Broward County Florida. 100k already returned. Received means received by the Secretary of Elections.

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    I complained when Trump said such things and there shouldn’t be a double standard - Biden has no business saying something like this.



    So I think there’s a difference between claiming election fraud and claiming the Republicans are trying to make it harder for people to vote. One is a legal but real tactic, the other is completely made up.

    Still, Joe shouldn’t go there. The “only way I can lose” statements are awful and insulting to the voters no matter who says them.
     
    So I think there’s a difference between claiming election fraud and claiming the Republicans are trying to make it harder for people to vote. One is a legal but real tactic, the other is completely made up.

    Still, Joe shouldn’t go there. The “only way I can lose” statements are awful and insulting to the voters no matter who says them.

    Agree - the problem isn’t talking about possible voting issues. The problem is telling your supporters that if you don’t win, it’s because some kind of fraud or shenanigans happened.
     
    Yeah, neither camp should be taking the voters for granted or assuming a certain outcome means an illegitimate election. Biden has to be smarter than this. Hopefully his campaign team discourages him from saying stuff like this in the future.
     

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