Federal Law Enforcement Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab Protesters Off Portland Streets (UPDATE: Trump admin. deploying federal LE to cities) (1 Viewer)

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    Dragon

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    “All United States Marshals Service arrestees have public records of arrest documenting their charges. Our agency did not arrest or detain Mark James Pettibone.”

    OPB sent DHS an extensive list of questions about Pettibone’s arrest including: What is the legal justification for making arrests away from federal property? What is the legal justification for searching people who are not participating in criminal activity? Why are federal officers using civilian vehicles and taking people away in them? Are the arrests federal officers make legal under the constitution? If so, how?

    After 7 p.m. Thursday, a DHS spokesperson responded, on background, that they could confirm Wolf was in Portland during the day. The spokesperson didn’t acknowledge the remaining questions.








    This story is very troublesome.
     
    This is not what America is supposed to look like.

    just lovely.jpg
     
    Kinda like Tiananmen Square!

    You know this administration is acting pretty pathetic right now something I never imagined could happen.
    You know, he really is stooping to a level I didn't think even he was capable of. I'd never put it past him to rob the country blind but didn't think he'd go so far as to attack a bunch of moms with the same mercenaries we use as contractors for the military overseas. He's a sociopath, no two ways about it.
     
    This isn't Portland, but rather from when he cleared out a path through peaceful protestors for his photo op with the upside down Bible in front of the church.


    “An Army National Guard commander who witnessed protesters forcibly removed from Lafayette Square last month is contradicting claims by the attorney general and the Trump administration that they did not speed up the clearing to make way for the president’s photo opportunity minutes later,” the Washington Post reports.

    DeMarco said that ‘demonstrators were behaving peacefully’ and that tear gas was deployed in an ‘excessive use of force.'”

    The full story is in the WaPo link that's in the quote.
     
    I am going to leave my above post up there even though reading it afte I posted it seems confusing. But here I am going to talk about something more specific:

    The civil rights movement was a seminal series of events touching on federal power in relation to the powers of various states. So events in it are often used as examples of federal power - not necessarily because of the racial compnent but because of the nature of state power and state laws - particularly in southern states.
    So - the Freedom Riders, for example, were finally afforded federal police protection due to the powers granted the federal government under the Interstate Commerce Clause in the Constitution. If you think the federal government has that power to use police protection to protect interstate commerce then on what basis is use of federal police is illegal to protect a city where businesses have been damaged by protesters if the feds are basing, at least in part, their use of police power on the interstate commerce clause?
    The justification may be the same, but the first example (civil rights) was using the power of the Federal Government to protect the rights of people. Which, I'd have to believe the 14th amendment was used as justification to some extent... Also, it may be a stretch to say a court house is part of interstate commerce (maybe not.. probably can be argued). However, from the 14th...

    " No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "

    While, I believe the feds can protect their building, it seems like an odd thing to overzealously protect a building by trampling on the first amendment rights of others. Sure, the agitators deserve it, but as usual, it seems like a bunch of collateral damage. I also don't like the whole 'snatching people off the street' deal.

    How far does it go to protect property? Every single Federal Park? Are interstates federal property or state property? Every federal court house? How far can they go to create a 'safe perimeter?'
     
    My wife got home last night early. About 1:30, before the fences were breached.

    She was brought home by other WoMs as she was struck in the abdomen with a canister. It was either on top of her or directly next to her as she suffered from severe gas poisoning, and came home unable to walk and throwing up. I put her in the shower and sat in a cold showered with her on the floor convulsing and throwing up until about two hours ago.

    She was sobbing uncontrollably. She finally was able to tell me what happened. Apparently, the moms were targeted again but the veterans advanced. He line broke and my wife got cutoff and was surrounded and fired at from close range and striking her in the ribs.

    This was bad but her real trauma came while she was on the ground before she got help. a fed pushed the end of their rifle up into her privates with force and told her to lie there and die. It took a while (she said it felt like hours) for someone to get to her through the smoke and feds so the canister just deployed on top of her.

    She is ok but I worry for her safety as she is only more determined now. She also wanted to apologize to those following her photo share, she only got pictures and video from the peaceful protests prior to the violence. I said I think everyone will understand.
    Video. Record. Everything.

    Send to ACLU...
     
    Ward-
    They are filming everything. My wife has been asked to be a witness and has turned over her evidence to the Oregon Attorney General.

    she didn’t go down last night because she was still showing signs of the gas. There were a lot of reports of people getting sicker than normal for tear gas and there is a white powder that is sticking to everything and won’t wash off. Reporters are having their equipment covered and the CoS for one of the Mayoral candidates (Sara Iannrone) has experienced lesions and was throwing up for hours. Tear gas doesn’t act this way. This reminds me when I worked as an environmental engineer at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal - Of blister agents (lewisite specifically) for WW1. these are all outlawed as part of the Geneva Convention.

    with the news of Blackwater being used this fits to me too.

    I am going down with a group of vets my wife hooked me up with, with the goal of trying to take a soldier’s mask off so I can get the canisters to see what they are protecting themselves from. And I am going take air samples with my equipment - tear gas is an organic compound and blister agents are inorganic.

    The first would catch them red handed if they have agent cans in their masks. Second would prove something else is in the air but will more than likely not be enough in open atmosphere to get my chromatograph to tell the difference.

    Tomorrow is my 13 year wedding anniversary and we are going to spend it together to further this operation. I will try to post from the protests.

    If they are using agent on Americans we are talking crimes against humanity and time in The Hague. This will get me to risk my life.
     
    Ward-
    They are filming everything. My wife has been asked to be a witness and has turned over her evidence to the Oregon Attorney General.

    she didn’t go down last night because she was still showing signs of the gas. There were a lot of reports of people getting sicker than normal for tear gas and there is a white powder that is sticking to everything and won’t wash off. Reporters are having their equipment covered and the CoS for one of the Mayoral candidates (Sara Iannrone) has experienced lesions and was throwing up for hours. Tear gas doesn’t act this way. This reminds me when I worked as an environmental engineer at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal - Of blister agents (lewisite specifically) for WW1. these are all outlawed as part of the Geneva Convention.

    with the news of Blackwater being used this fits to me too.

    I am going down with a group of vets my wife hooked me up with, with the goal of trying to take a soldier’s mask off so I can get the canisters to see what they are protecting themselves from. And I am going take air samples with my equipment - tear gas is an organic compound and blister agents are inorganic.

    The first would catch them red handed if they have agent cans in their masks. Second would prove something else is in the air but will more than likely not be enough in open atmosphere to get my chromatograph to tell the difference.

    Tomorrow is my 13 year wedding anniversary and we are going to spend it together to further this operation. I will try to post from the protests.

    If they are using agent on Americans we are talking crimes against humanity and time in The Hague. This will get me to risk my life.
    If anyone you know has that residue on their stuff, can't you just get that tested?

     
    This isn't Portland, but rather from when he cleared out a path through peaceful protestors for his photo op with the upside down Bible in front of the church.




    The full story is in the WaPo link that's in the quote.

    That was the beginning of all of this. It’s disgusting.
     
    Ward-

    yes they have - earlytest results are showing degraded hydrochloric acid and arsenic. Both are compounds in blister agents but are very prevalent elsewhere too.

    but again nobody really has experience with it. Having a mom collect a residue sample from a bike helmet won’t work- they will contaminate it if it wasn’t already from the oil in their skin and the salt in their sweat. Then you need a Chain of Custody and have the sample collected and analyzed by the lab on the CoC. Real time Air sampling events are scheduled months in advance and require literally truckloads of equipment. I have a FiD and a PiD that can tell IDLH environments and ID inorganic chemicals. But again that isn’t proof of anything.

    that is why I really believe we need to get a mask off of one of the MERCs. Agent cans inside the mask would be definitive proof that they were expecting to breathe agent. Agent is something the public could never get.

    if they are in fact doing this and can be caught with irrefutable evidence, that would be the revelation that would completely turn opinion against them. It would win the war.
     
    The idea of trying to physically engage with feds (contractors or not) seems both dangerous and misguided. If you're committed to the notions of non-violence, you need to practice it.
     
    I know it is dangerous and probably misguided. However, if the MERCs are using agent on citizens, then that information being public is more important than my wellbeing or my personal beliefs.

    honestly, this isn’t what I want to do at all. I just don’t know if any way to get this information in any other way. Any other method is explained away ; or if they know that they are being suspected, they will dispose of it and no one will ever know for sure.

    again, this isn’t pepper balls or shock grenades that they may be using. This is chemical warfare agent; one of the reasons that we went into Iraq over- on suspicion of him having blister and nerve agent and having used it on the Kurds. Assad used it in Syria. These are the despots that we will be equal to.

    I am not a violent person. I don’t own a gun and never have. I can count on one hand how many times I have even fired one. But if a group of Mercenaries are using chemical agent, I am willing to put myself in harms way. Because if they are doing this now, we are in real trouble in a few months when a transition is supposed to take place. There is no army to save us. They are the enemy right now.
     
    I don't know dude, the only way to get your hands on a canister is to commit assault. That is what you are signing up to do. Commit assault on a suspicion.

    So, there is the practical legal matter, and the larger moral issue of participating in a cascading cycle of violence.
     
    I am not going to be assaulting anyone. I am just going to take the mask and get it analyzed

    At worst I would be abetting and receiving stolen goods.

    I am self employed and have already set my affairs with my attorney so I don’t have to worry about a job. My lawyer told me that for the crimes I could be charged with I could spend time in federal prison. I am ok with that in this instance.

    Jeebus did I just say I am good with going to prison!?! that is how forked up this is.
     
    Ward-

    yes they have - earlytest results are showing degraded hydrochloric acid and arsenic. Both are compounds in blister agents but are very prevalent elsewhere too.

    but again nobody really has experience with it. Having a mom collect a residue sample from a bike helmet won’t work- they will contaminate it if it wasn’t already from the oil in their skin and the salt in their sweat. Then you need a Chain of Custody and have the sample collected and analyzed by the lab on the CoC. Real time Air sampling events are scheduled months in advance and require literally truckloads of equipment. I have a FiD and a PiD that can tell IDLH environments and ID inorganic chemicals. But again that isn’t proof of anything.

    that is why I really believe we need to get a mask off of one of the MERCs. Agent cans inside the mask would be definitive proof that they were expecting to breathe agent. Agent is something the public could never get.

    if they are in fact doing this and can be caught with irrefutable evidence, that would be the revelation that would completely turn opinion against them. It would win the war.
    Sorry, catching up on this late.

    I'd be careful about getting a mask, unless they're cool about it. Sure fire way to get in real trouble.

    Secondly, while you may or may not have a chain of custody, it could be enough for your local News stations or papers to get involved and ask the hard questions.

    HCl isn't a big deal, but arsenic? That's not exactly wide spread on most items. You won't find it on paints or plastics.
     

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